What is a responsible Breeder?

[johnwa]

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" bordercolor="#b8860b" bgcolor=white><tr><td align="left">
<font color="#800000" size="+1">What is the definition of a responsible/professional breeder?</font>
<font color=black size="+1">
Many people come to this forum with the intent to acquire a puppy from a breeder. What should a perspective buyer of a golden retriever puppy, look for in a breeder? Specify the qualities that make up a "responsible" breeder. Talk about signs that a breeder is not responsible. </font>
</td></tr></table>

[tamispray]

Other than upholding breed standards,health, and breeding for great temperment which are all neccessary to be a good breader, I think a very important aspect of a good breeder is that they take the time to make sure each and every one of their puppies ends up in a great PERMANANT home. The breeder that takes the time to interview each family and educate each family on what owning a golden is all about is the one that sticks out as a responsible breeder to me. If they are willing to go the extra mile to be sure that their puppies do not end up at shelters or in bad homes that shows they really do love the breed.

[goldenjack]

To add just one thing to this list. I would think that a breeder who is very much involved with their dogs, and is a breed enthusiast, is a definite plus. By involved, I mean various forms of competition, shows, hunting, and so on.

[litw]

Also a good breeder would be willing to take the dog back at any time during it's life for whatever reason.

[Swampcollie]

A reputable breeder will have health clearances on their breeding animals, and will offer a written guarantee (really a warranty) on the health of the pups they produce. This is just the beginning. They will take the dog back at any time in the dogs life. Most reputable breeders will require that you notify them, if you can't keep the dog for some reason, before you place the dog with another family, or surrender it to a shelter.

A reputable breeder will want the puppies they produce to get into the right homes. They want what is best for the puppy, so many people are turned down.

A reputable breeder will ask you questions about your intentions and purposes for acquiring the dog. Today's purebred dogs are very specialized within given breeds, and possess unique differences in size, color, energy level and temperament. All are Goldens, but they do have differences between them, unique to purpose(Conformation, Obedience, Field, or Agility). A reputable breeder will tell you if they don't breed for the purpose you're searching for, and help you find a reputable breeder that does produce the style of dog you're looking for.

A reputable breeder will ask you questions about your views on such things as feeding, living conditions, veterinary care, and lifestyle.

Most reputable breeders have waiting or reservation lists, and the entire litter will be spoken for before the litter is conceived. Be prepared to be patient and wait.

[Jo Ellen]

I'm reminded of the recent situation on this board where the husband wanted the golden but the wife did not.

I would think a responsible breeder will involve the entire family when making a decision to place one of their pups.

[KCGoldens]

Someone showed me this article a while back. I think it covers a great deal on the subject. I think anyone looking for a new puppy would enjoy reading this! :)


Click on the link to open a new window to read the article!
Responsible breeders! (http://grrow.org/pages/newsinfo/backyard_breeder.htm)

[SkyRaider]

This might help:

"Why pay more for a pet puppy?"

"The $800.00 Puppy vs. The $300.00 Puppy

$800.00 - Both the sire and dam of this puppy came from top quality breeding stock which was developed over years and years of selective and knowledgeable breeding. Both meet the requirement of the written AKC and ASCA standard for the breed in conformation as well as temperament. Each has a pedigree, which has been studied and thoroughly researched. These dogs have been selected to breed to each other because they can both contribute to the excellence of the breed as well as complement on another.

$300.00 - The dam of this litter was purchased from a local pet store and originally came from a Missouri puppy mill. She was sick off and on the first year of her life due to too many different types of intestinal parasites and malnutrition. The sire, an over-sized male, lives down the street and was purchased from an ad in the newspaper. Neither owner has ever heard of the AKC or ASCA written standard. Neither owner has seen a written pedigree. The female is skittish and snappy. Her owners hope that having a litter will calm her down.

$800.00 - Before this breeding ever took place, both male and female had test including hip X-Rays, eye tests and heart tests to determine that there were no physical or genetic problems that might be passed on to offspring. The breeder is well aware of the genetic problems to which the breed is predisposed and uses no animal for breeding unless it is certified clear of defects by a qualified Veterinarian. The health of her pups is guaranteed.

$300.00 - The breeder is totally unaware of the genetic problems within the breed. Trips to the Veterinarian, except for dire emergencies or yearly shots, are considered too expensive. The breeders' hope is to make money off the sale of the puppies. If he keeps expenses down, he can by that new couch he's been wanting. Puppies are sold with no guarantee.

$800.00 - The breeder is a professional and he has a good reputation to maintain. His goal is to produce beautiful and sound specimens, which anyone would be proud to own. Profit, if any is made, goes toward future breedings, always aimed toward the betterment of the breed, or for show entries, handler's fees, new equipment and important veterinary tests. Both the mother and pups are fed the highest quality diet. Many trips to the vet assure him that mother and pups are thriving under the very best care. The pups are raised in a busy part of the house where they are socialized, groomed and exposed to different kinds of stimuli. They are touched and talked to, cuddled and even sung to. They are never sold before they are seven weeks old. Every buyer is interviewed at length and pups are placed only in homes where they will receive the finest treatment. The breeder spends time with each new owner, educating and answering questions. Follow-up calls are made to make sure the pups are adjusting well. Each new owner receives a bill of sale and health guarantees, vaccination record, minimum five-generation pedigree, guarantee of registration with the AKC and ASCA and thorough puppy care and nutrition information. If the puppy is not considered to be of such quality as it will better the breed the puppy is sold with a limited registration or non-breeding agreements. The new owners are encouraged to continue a relationship with the breeder, and to call and ask questions at any time during the dog's life.

$300.00 - These puppies are born in a box, in the garage and receive little care other than what the mother gives. To cut costs they are weaned on generic dog food and allowed to nurse on the mother as long as possible to keep food bills down. The bitch's health declines rapidly due to poor health and some pups are weak and runty. They are sold as quickly as possible because advertising and vaccines are expensive. They are sold without having had their dewclaws removed, without shots, parasite checks, vet examinations, guarantees or information of any kind. They are sold to anyone who has the cash. If the new owner is lucky he may receive a AKC or ASCA registration application. Although the puppy is of very poor quality, it is sold with full breeding rights. The new owner usually disappears with the pup, never to be seen again. If the market is not good, the breeder takes the leftover pups to the local pet shop.

The comparison you have just read is hypothetical, but very typical of what we see all too often. Although not every breeder who charges higher prices is reputable and ethical, pet buyers should keep looking until they find one that is. When I am asked why my prices are so much higher than those in some newspaper ads, I mail a copy of this article. Those buyers who respect the quality and excellence are wonderful customers and become "partners" in this hobby that I love so much. Those that are seeking pets deserve nothing less than a nice quality, healthy and trusting animal. As well as a breeder they can count on."

- Anonymous

[KCGoldens]

I just saw some links to "mail order" dog stores! >:
Just point, click and order and your golden puppy will arrive to you the next day. They had dozens of other breeds if you didn't want goldens. Fees $800 to $4500 >:
They could care less where there puppies go so long as they get their money!

NEVER order from a place like this. These are the most
IRRESPONSIBLE breeder that there are! Online puppymills. :(

[Jo Ellen]

Good God, this should be illegal. I wonder if one of our news shows would want to check this out....pose as a potential buyer and see what this is really about.

[Goldenheart]

<span style="font-family:georgia; color:green;">KCGoldens, I guess this one goes under a bad breeder<img border=0 src="http://www.topgoldenretrieversites.net/smiles/021.gif" />May explain why their are so many rescue's out their right now that need homes though. Gosh, will it ever end<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/frown.gif" />

How can something so beautiful and loving be used in such away, I agree....it should be illegal.</span>

[Swampcollie]

KC,

This type of ad is from a Puppy Broker, one who deals in the buying and selling of puppies for profit. They are the main suppliers of puppies to Pet Shops. Together, they are the driving force that fuels and supports the puppy mill industry.

Avoid brokers and pet shops.:021

[kathiesabbey]

What are your thoughts on a Breeder who displays all the characteristics of a good breeder, and then after you have owned your puppy for two months and still haven't received AKC registration papers you find that the breeder never even registered the litter???? >: >:

[Goldenjewel]

I agree with you guys about puppymills. They are very wrong. But I don't tell people not to buy from that I know would be great owners because, Its helping the puppies. This kinda deal is the breeders fault, not the puppies. I wish so much that I could just buy all of the puppies in the world that are from pet shops and puppy mills, but I would have to have all the time and money in the world to do so. Now don't take this forum in the wrong way some puppies from pet shops or puppy mills can have stuff wrong with them, like hip and knee problems. I just think that puppy mills and pet shops have got a bad reputation from the people who run them. Just my thoughts. ( you don't have to listen) Mandy:)

[twolegs16goldenpawz]

Here is a list of Questions you should ask your breeder BEFORE going to see any pups

Breeder Check list

Where did you find out about this Golden breeder?

Responsible breeders will breed only when they have a waiting list of puppy buyers. They usually don't find it necessary to advertise in newspapers or with a sign out in the front yard. The Golden Retriever Club of America maintains a Puppy Referral Network

Do both Golden parents (the sire and dam) have hip clearances from the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) or PennHip?

Ask to see the certificates. "My vet okayed the x-ray" is not a valid clearance.

Do both Golden parents have current eye clearances(CERF)?

This must be performed every year. Ask to see the certificates.

Do both of the Golden parents have a veterinarian's SAS clearance preferably with ultrasound by a canine cardiologist, on the hearts of both parents?

Ask to see the certificates.

Are both Golden parents at least two years old?

CERF (eye), SAS (heart) & OFA (hip) clearances cannot be obtained before that age. PennHip determines hip conditions at an earlier age.

How often is the Golden dam bred?

Breeding every heat cycle IS TOO OFTEN and may indicate that profit is the primary motive for the breeding. Also between what ages between 2 and 6 are best after 6 the female is a senior and shouldn’t be breed it places too much strain on her body . Stud dogs can be breed much longer.

Do all four Golden grandparents, siblings of the Golden parents and any other puppies that they may have produced have these clearances?

A responsible breeder will keep track of these statistics and honestly discuss any problems that have occurred in the lines and what has been done to prevent them from recurring

Are both Golden parents free of allergies and epilepsy?

Is this Golden breeder willing to provide you with references and telephone numbers of other people who have purchased puppies from him/her?

If not find a different breeder

Will the Golden puppy have a limited registration (which means if the dog is bred, the puppies cannot be AKC registered) with a mandatory spay/neuter contract?

A breeder who cares enough about the breed to insist on these is probably a responsible breeder.

On what basis was the Golden sire chosen?

If the answer is "because he lives right down the street" or "because he is really sweet," it may be that sufficient thought was not put into the breeding

Will this Golden breeder take the dog back at any time, for any reason, if you cannot keep it?

This is the hallmark of responsible breeding (and the quickest, best way to make rescue obsolete).

Will this Golden breeder be available for the life of the dog to answer any questions you might have? Is this someone you would feel comfortable asking any type of question?

Is this Golden breeder knowledgeable about the breed? Is he or she involved in competition with their Goldens (field, obedience, or conformation)?

Are there a majority of titled Goldens (the initials: CH, OTCH, CD, JH, WC... before or after the names) in the first two generations

The term "champion lines" means nothing if those titles are back three or more generations or there are only one or two in the whole pedigree.

Are the Golden puppy's sire and dam available for you to meet? If the Golden sire is unavailable, are you able to call his owners or people who have his puppies to ask about temperament or health problems?

You should also be provided with pictures or videos

Have the Golden puppies been raised in the home — not in a kennel, barn or the back yard?

Are the puppies on the Main level of the home not in the basement?

Is this Golden breeder knowledgeable about raising puppies, critical neonatal periods, and proper socialization techniques?

Puppies that are raised without high exposure to gentle handling, human contact and a wide variety of noises and experiences OR are removed from their dam or litter mates before at least 7 weeks may exhibit a wide variety of behavioral problems! Temperament, a genetic trait carried over from the parents, still needs development from the early beginnings of a puppy's life. The breeder should provide extensive socialization and human interaction to the puppies in the litter.

Does this Golden breeder provide a 3 to 5 generation pedigree, copies of all clearances, the guarantee, health records and assorted materials to help you with feeding, training and housebreaking


Have the puppies' temperaments been evaluated and can this Golden breeder guide you to the puppy that will best suit your lifestyle?

A very shy puppy will not do well in a noisy household with small children, just as a very dominant puppy won't flourish in a sedate, senior citizen household. A caring breeder will know the puppies and be able to show you how to test them so that good matches can be made.

Do these Golden puppies seem healthy, with no discharge from eyes or nose, no loose stools, no foul smelling ears? Are their coats soft, full and clean? Do they have plenty of energy when awake, yet calm down easily when gently stroked?

Do these Golden puppies have their first shots and have they been wormed

Does this Golden breeder have only 1 or at most 2 breeds of dogs and only 1 litter at a time?

If there are several breeds of dogs, chances are the breeder cannot devote the time it takes to become really knowledgeable about the breed. If there is more than one litter at a time, it is very difficult to give the puppies the attention they need and may indicate that the primary purpose for breeding is profit, rather than a sincere desire to sustain and improve the breed.


Does this breeder belong to the Golden Retriever Club of America and/or a local Golden Retriever club and has he/she signed a breeders' "Code of Ethics"?

If they are not why aren’t they?


Do you feel comfortable with this person?

Keep in mind that you are entering into a decade long relationship. If you feel intimidated or pressured, keep looking! It's worth the effort.

Sorry this is so long but is Worth the reading

[Goldenjewel]

THankyou, Twolegs16goldens! That is great advice. I'm going to be buying a golden puppy around spring, so I will use that info to pick out a good pup. From the right breeder! Cause I will be breeding that puppy too!

I printed that info out and saved! Mandy :)

[twolegs16goldenpawz]

Mandy I have some other great articles about Finding a Reputable Breeder (http://www.gentlebreezekennels.com/index.php?option=articles&Itemid=3&topid=3)on my site if you want to check it out the link will take you right to the articles

[Mhami]

This is a great thread. Thank you twolegs16goldenpawz for your very informative post. It answered several questions of mine.

I do still have one question. Is it possible that someone who places ads in newspapers can still be a responsible breeder? I found an ad that states the following:

GOLDEN Retriever Pups AKC, champ hunting lines & several hall of fames, 2 yr genetic health guar, dewclaws, DNA, OFA hip, heart & cert. eyes, $700 ea.

Sounds good. I haven't called them, but if I do besides going with my gut about whether or not this is a shady deal, should I be concerned that this was a dog sold through the newspaper?

Thanks, and if there is anyone in CA who can help me find a reputable breeder who does not charge over $1000 I would appreciate it.

Marianne

[Touchka]

When my Chloé had pups I advertised them in a local newspaper and on our French Goldie site www.goldenretriever-france.com/ (http://www.goldenretriever-france.com/)
The prospective buyers were well vetted and we were so 'responsible' that we actually tried to disuade people from buying them. Only when we were absolutely certain that people could look after our babies properly did we let them go. Those who didn't ask the right questions and show concern about family lines, health issues etc, didn't get a pup.
So yes, it is possible to buy a good pup through the papers but my advice would be to visit several times before handing over your money and check out every thing possible.

[diiorio]

A resposible breeder will also have all their dogs, the sire, and dam, on he primisses when you go to see the puppies. Many breeders have goten the ability to sense peopel out. Don't be shocked if they ask "How did you learn of me, where do you work, do you have a fenced yard, do you have a Veterinarian you use.

My breeder was more at ease since I came with a co worker/friend, work as a Vet Tech fo many years, and own a house. She mainly deals with reaquiring references and was shocked I came from a logn distance to see her by referral.

Also a responsible breeder will only sale puppies as Limited AKC registations, meanign yu can not breed and register litters, nor compete in conformation competitions (but they may allow and recommend agility and field to keep their dog's active and healthy).

If your "Breeder" has open AKC registration, no registration, or doesn't care what you do with the dog, hen it's a sign they are not responsible.

[GoldCountryGirl]

Actually, a responsible breeder may or may NOT have the sire on the premises. In fact, many breeders use studs from out of the area for their bitches. BUT, they will have a folder with photos and all the clearances, show wins, pedigrees of the sire. Also, I would be wary of a breeder who only breeds her females to males on site. Often this is what a BYB will do. They have "mom and dad" both there or sometimes a few females and one stud who services them all.

A resposible breeder will also have all their dogs, the sire, and dam, on he primisses when you go to see the puppies. Many breeders have goten the ability to sense peopel out. Don't be shocked if they ask "How did you learn of me, where do you work, do you have a fenced yard, do you have a Veterinarian you use.

My breeder was more at ease since I came with a co worker/friend, work as a Vet Tech fo many years, and own a house. She mainly deals with reaquiring references and was shocked I came from a logn distance to see her by referral.

Also a responsible breeder will only sale puppies as Limited AKC registations, meanign yu can not breed and register litters, nor compete in conformation competitions (but they may allow and recommend agility and field to keep their dog's active and healthy).

If your "Breeder" has open AKC registration, no registration, or doesn't care what you do with the dog, hen it's a sign they are not responsible.

[Rich in goldens]

I would like to add just a few comments about responsible breeding. I really believe that whether the breeder is selling dogs that are just for companions or for show and field that there are some points that need to be followed to be considered responsible.

1. I think all beeders need to remember that in the USA we euthanise 6 million dogs every year.So to bring a new puppy into this world, in a responsible way is above all else.

2. for the novice and new Golden owner Both the Bitch and the Stud should be available for view I would travel to see the Stud if necassary. It is important to view the personality an temperment of the parents. Puppies seem to take on the temperment of one or both of the parents.

3. All health certs need to be available not only for the parents but more importantly for the grandparents.The heredity of health issues is strongest in the 2nd generation.

4. A Good breeder selects only the puppies that suit the capability of the family purchasing. This means that they will not send the most domant puppy home with the in-experienced family. ( a good breeder or someone around dogs and puppies can tell this temperment at 4-6 weeks)

5. Responsible breeders have notification clauses that state if you are going to surrender or sell your puupy you will notify them.Good Breeders above all want to make sure a dog from their litters is housed in a good home.

6. Good breeders make sure that all medical issues are up to date( worming , shots, etc..) and give a detailed medical needs sheet to each new puppy owner. They further give health gaurantees with all new puppies.

7.) Good breeders follow the Breed standards no matter what the reason they are raising them for.( show or pet )

8. Good breeders inform new owners about training requirements. and suggest methods for toilet training, crating,and the general well being of the puppy in a new home.

9. A good breeder understands that the novice owner is probably uninformed about much of the dog owning issues. They will make every effort to provide some education and guidance in this selection process. Responsible breeders will not send a puppy home on the first visit with a new owner. They will require the potential owner to go off premise to think about the choice and the responsibility .

These are a few of the things that I think makes a responsible breeder.
My businessis to train and Provide behavioral services to over 300 dogs per year. The need for me would be grately reduced if the above conditions were general practice.

[Jilly]

You sound like just the person to help me with my problem...see - 'At the end of my tether' in the behavioral section. I would love to know if I have in some way contributed to the aggressive and dominant natures of 2 of our Goldies and if I can do something to correct the problem.

[diiorio]

You also need to be weary of people who state they have chanpion studs sired their females wit out proper documents. Be sure the DNA files are given as well.

I rather see the sire and dam, see there Champion points (because I do look it up). I rather not go by pictures of possible Sires, becuase pictures can be edited or falsified. I can give yo ua picture or a claimed stud, and send you a pup that really isn't from that stud. That's the down side.

I also will never trust a breeder willing to send their dog on an air plane to an unknown person. If the breeder does not need to see me in person, hen their concern for the pups is low.

The back yard breeder term is over played also. Most of the AKC and Westminster champs are home breed, not on a farm or in a Kennel. They are Living room breeders and take pride in having their pups in a proper setting.

You have to weigh all the odds. My puppies Sire has his DNA on file, and semen, however there is restrictions to how it is used. Potential owners are still screened. The potential bitch is also reviewed, must pass all checks and screenings. Then a whoel lot of contracts are filled including registation allowances.

[GoldCountryGirl]

Well, of course most reputable breeders are hobby breeders out of their home. And, yes, they have backyards where their litters probably spend a lot of time usually from 4 weeks on.
I believe the term Backyard Breeder isn't merely about describing where the pups are whelped, but more of a term that means they usually have a pet dog who they often think is God's gift to the dog world....no matter that there are no health clearances and maybe no pedigree...anyway, they have this innate desire to breed to another dog of the same purebred status. So, why not breed with the neighbor's equally "gorgeous" dog down the street or maybe the BYB has purchased a male and a female for this purpose. But, none of the dogs probably have clearances, or if they do, often time limited just to OFA. And, it's not always that these types of breeders are necessarily "bad". They usually have good intentions, thinking how nice it would be for their kids to witness the "miracle of birth". Or maybe they love their dog so much they simply want to carry on his or her genes. Could be a family member really wants a pup "just like the wonderful dog THEY have". Then there are the BYBs who think they're going to make money. And, sure if they don't spend what it takes to do all the clearances and vet checks, they just might make a few bucks. In the meantime, they've produced puppies who might look adorable (or not), but who really knows what is behind these pups regarding health, conformation, temperament. etc. etc.

I forgot to add, hence my EDIT: One of the things that BYBs do most often is not sell their pups on LIMITED REGISTRATION. So, anyone is free to breed a dog who could pass down any number of hereditary anomalies or they might simply not resemble what the breed is supposed to look like. They often aren't hard to spot, whether it's by their looks or their temperaments.

You also need to be weary of people who state they have chanpion studs sired their females wit out proper documents. Be sure the DNA files are given as well.

I rather see the sire and dam, see there Champion points (because I do look it up). I rather not go by pictures of possible Sires, becuase pictures can be edited or falsified. I can give yo ua picture or a claimed stud, and send you a pup that really isn't from that stud. That's the down side.

I also will never trust a breeder willing to send their dog on an air plane to an unknown person. If the breeder does not need to see me in person, hen their concern for the pups is low.

The back yard breeder term is over played also. Most of the AKC and Westminster champs are home breed, not on a farm or in a Kennel. They are Living room breeders and take pride in having their pups in a proper setting.

You have to weigh all the odds. My puppies Sire has his DNA on file, and semen, however there is restrictions to how it is used. Potential owners are still screened. The potential bitch is also reviewed, must pass all checks and screenings. Then a whoel lot of contracts are filled including registation allowances.

[GoldCountryGirl]

Regarding not having the sire available for viewing and observing his temperament....something that seems to be happening more now with breeds is the use of AI. So, a breeder often times sees a desirable stud in a photo or two. She might ask around or merely hear it from the stud's breeder/owner that he is a WONDERFUL dog with excellent temperament, etc. And, his picture might give him the appearance of being drop dead gorgeous. In the meantime, his frozen or chilled sperm is shipped cross country just in time to inseminate your bitch. So, how do you really know what you're getting? DOES this stud really have the desirable and required temperament that the breed is supposed to have? Is he all that he appears to be in his posed photo? How is his movement? Or is he just being marketed as a stud-of-the-moment that everyone just HAS to have?

That being said, I've read where breeders might see these photos on websites, etc. and have high hopes of using this boy. So, they go to a show and see him in person. They watch him move and interact with other dogs and people. Suddenly a red light goes on and they realize a picture does NOT tell the whole story. Not only does this dog NOT totally resemble the "pose" in his photo---he doesn't have the movement you want and would expect, nor does he present as the type of dog you want siring your litter. He may be aggressive or shy. Or just not what you're looking for. And, to think you were very tempted to use him just from looking at his photo and listening to his breeder.

Anyway, not only do puppy buyers need to be aware of who the sire is, so do the breeders. Again, as for being able to actually see the sire in person, whether you are a breeder or buyer, I do find the logistics often impossible. Sometimes bitches are sent to be bred to a particular stud and he might be several states away. Or the semen is shipped. I think this is where trust and a lot of research and knowledge is important. Talk to other breeders and folks who know this stud. Look at 5 generation pedigrees and go way back into his lines. See what he has produced in the past. Talk to the owners of those pups/dogs. Go to the OFA website and check clearances. Get as many photos of the stud as you can taken at different angles. If you prefer pups who are larger boned and lighter shaded, look at the sire and see if he fits that criteria. Same with his relatives. Of course, the dam will be half of this equation, so she may have all the qualities you're looking for, but the sire could be darker and smaller boned. The combination could produce pups looking like either or both. Check longevity in both lines. There is a lot you can do without having the opportunity to actually meet the sire. I would rather acquire a pup bred by a reputable breeder who knows this stud and does all the necessary clearances, etc. than buy a puppy from a BYB who happens to have both parents on site, but have little info on him...or maybe he doesn't have the conformation/temperament qualities I'm looking for. So, sure I was able to see BOTH parents. Big deal. That still doesn't mean I am getting a pup from quality dogs. But, then some folks aren't as particular, nor do they really care about genetics or health issues that might affect their puppy down the line. That's a shame.




Well, of course most reputable breeders are hobby breeders out of their home. And, yes, they have backyards where their litters probably spend a lot of time usually from 4 weeks on.
I believe the term Backyard Breeder isn't merely about describing where the pups are whelped, but more of a term that means they usually have a pet dog who they often think is God's gift to the dog world....no matter that there are no health clearances and maybe no pedigree...anyway, they have this innate desire to breed to another dog of the same purebred status. So, why not breed with the neighbor's equally "gorgeous" dog down the street or maybe the BYB has purchased a male and a female for this purpose. But, none of the dogs probably have clearances, or if they do, often time limited just to OFA. And, it's not always that these types of breeders are necessarily "bad". They usually have good intentions, thinking how nice it would be for their kids to witness the "miracle of birth". Or maybe they love their dog so much they simply want to carry on his or her genes. Could be a family member really wants a pup "just like the wonderful dog THEY have". Then there are the BYBs who think they're going to make money. And, sure if they don't spend what it takes to do all the clearances and vet checks, they just might make a few bucks. In the meantime, they've produced puppies who might look adorable (or not), but who really knows what is behind these pups regarding health, conformation, temperament. etc. etc.

[GoldenLady]

Well said, GoldCountryGirl - excellent posts! :604 :604 :604

I agree wholeheartedly.

GoldenLady :)

[GoldCountryGirl]

Why thank you, GoldenLady! Many hands up to YOU, too!
:029 :029 :029 :029

Well said, GoldCountryGirl - excellent posts! :604 :604 :604

I agree wholeheartedly.

GoldenLady :)

[GoldenLady]

Why thank you, GoldenLady! Many hands up to YOU, too!
:029 :029 :029 :029

Aww.... thanks to you as well. :)



Anyway, not only do puppy buyers need to be aware of who the sire is, so do the breeders. Again, as for being able to actually see the sire in person, whether you are a breeder or buyer, I do find the logistics often impossible. Sometimes bitches are sent to be bred to a particular stud and he might be several states away. Or the semen is shipped. I think this is where trust and a lot of research and knowledge is important. Talk to other breeders and folks who know this stud. Look at 5 generation pedigrees and go way back into his lines. See what he has produced in the past. Talk to the owners of those pups/dogs. Go to the OFA website and check clearances. Get as many photos of the stud as you can taken at different angles. If you prefer pups who are larger boned and lighter shaded, look at the sire and see if he fits that criteria. Same with his relatives. Of course, the dam will be half of this equation, so she may have all the qualities you're looking for, but the sire could be darker and smaller boned. The combination could produce pups looking like either or both. Check longevity in both lines. There is a lot you can do without having the opportunity to actually meet the sire. I would rather acquire a pup bred by a reputable breeder who knows this stud and does all the necessary clearances, etc. than buy a puppy from a BYB who happens to have both parents on site, but have little info on him...or maybe he doesn't have the conformation/temperament qualities I'm looking for. So, sure I was able to see BOTH parents. Big deal. That still doesn't mean I am getting a pup from quality dogs. But, then some folks aren't as particular, nor do they really care about genetics or health issues that might affect their puppy down the line. That's a shame.

I just wanted to elaborate a bit on this, because I couldn't agree more with what GoldCountryGirl has said here. I believe that by meeting the dogs in person at the breeder's house, you really can only glean so much about their temperament, given that you're only seeing the dogs in their own environment and under very limited circumstances - and often only for a short period of time. Some dogs spook easily when they're not in a comfortable setting - definitely *not* a desirable trait for a Golden. Or a dog may be dog-aggressive, and seeing him/her with just their kennelmates isn't a reliable way of judging that. Suppose neither you nor the breeder has kids - how can you tell if the dogs are good (i.e. patient, gentle and tolerant) with the younger set? Etc., etc..... I believe that the best way to truly know what you're getting yourself into is, as stated above, by doing TONS of research into the specific dogs, the lines, and ALL the inherent concerns having to do with the dogs as well as the breeder.

I got my last puppy from a breeder across the country - caught a flight out there to visit with the breeder, see the dam and the litter in person, choose the puppy I wanted, and bring him home. The sire was in a different part of the continent altogether, and while it would have been great to have been able to see him as well, there was a limit to how much travelling I was able to do. I went the research route, learning as much as I could about the lines by talking to breeders all over North America (my phone bill was frightening for a while there ;)), doing online searches, etc. to ensure that the litter was indeed what I was looking for. On the other hand, many years ago, a good friend of mine got a dog from a breeder who owned both the sire and dam; she had the chance to interact with the dogs on a one-on-one basis for quite a while, and spent hours chatting with the breeder.... All seemed to be well. Some time after she got her puppy, she found out through the grapevine that her girl's sire was dog-aggressive. She had no way of telling that that was the case, since the dog seemed to be perfectly nice in his own environment. Fortunately, her puppy turned out fine, temperament-wise, but it just goes to show that things aren't always how they seem. I'm not faulting my friend at all for her decision; I heard all about her visits with the breeder at the time, and it definitely sounded like everything was okay. Times have changed though, and with the internet being what it is, it's so much easier to do our homework, and we owe it to ourselves to do the best job we can in selecting our new family members.

GoldenLady :)

[kinseysmom]

1. Yes......we paid $700 for Kinsey and consider her a bargain!! Yes, her's was a pet litter. Some pet litter....English Shows and other fabulous lines in her pedigree. (I know...big deal but it really is)
2. Kinsey's "grandparents" (the breeders) do not let the buyer pick out the puppy for themselves. They match up the puppy with the buyer and the buyer's family and lifestyle and termperment. I thought at first, "oh gosh" but wow...the breeders were so clearly right on with everything. Also, at 6 weeks, the "prospective buyers" start coming out to visit the puppies...we're asked to come out 4-5 times each week so that by the time the puppy is 8 weeks old, everyone has clearly fallen in love with the right puppy.
3. Yes, we waited 1 year for a puppy.
4. I've read a lot about AKC registration here....our breeder makes us sign a contract, of course, and we do not get the AKC registration until "proof of spay/neuter". Obviously, this is a pet litter not a show litter.
5. Regarding those puppy mills in Missouri? Oh wow. I live here in Omaha and we hear about those damn puppy mills all the time. We rescued Finny from this fabulous shelter in southeast Nebraska - Hearts United for Animals (they won an award from The Smithsonian Institute in Washington...amazing and well deserved). :029

[GoldenParadise]

I'd like to mention a couple more things, which may not be as prevalent in Goldens as in other breeds. One is - be prepared to WAIT.

Great breeders have waiting lists. Usually you can't just walk in and pick your puppy. You put a deposit down months in advance (even a year or so), and, once a litter is born, the breeder notifies you if there's a pup available. If that pup doesn't quite suit your criteria (you want male, they only have females - all spoken for, of course), you'll wait some more.

Temperament tests are done, the pups are socialized in many situations, with children, other dogs, older people, cats, etc. All litters have an Alpha male and female. There also are shy pups, inquisitive pups, active pups, aloof pups.

Generally, because there ARE varying traits, you will not pick your pup. The breeder does. They know you, know what you're looking for, know each and every pup. If one or two fit, you may be able to choose, or you may not, depending on how many deposits there are, and if there might be a better match.

Good breeders are very particular where their pups go. Every one has a different idea of a good home, or a great home. If they don't like something you've said, you're out. It doesn't mean you aren't worthy, or wouldn't give a great home to a Golden, but sometimes things just don't click. Some want their dogs worked, even if not shown. Some want active owners. Some want big yards, etc. But, they all do have their criteria. If they don't question you to death, they're probably not great breeders. Plus, expect them to research you as you've researched them.

If AI is being used, the breeder is probably quite serious. They have gone out of their way to have the proper stud for their dam. AI is not an inexpensive proposition, and it's not something a backyard breeder would do. The breeder that uses AI would know everything about that stud. No doubt.

Generally, however, when you're talking about AI and long, long waiting lists, you're talking about serious, well known, respected breeders. However, this doesn't preclude you from doing you homework. All the rules still apply. Ask for clearaces, pedigrees, etc.

[pixiepurls]

My breeder doesn't breed a dog until one of her dogs has "Clearances" this means she waits till they ever several years old and then checked for any defects in bones etc. So she NEVER breeds a dog before it's like 3 years old.

The momma dog probably at most will ever be bred 3 times, a back yard breeder is the type of person who has one male, one female and breeds that female once a year for several years, maybe a lot of years.

A breeder normally has 5 or six dogs in her home. She will often have a small dog kennel or dog runs.

the breeder will insist that the dog be an indoor dog, and insist that you not breed the dog. if the breeder doesn't care or ask if you plan to breed, she's not a responsible breeder.

You want a breeder who requires you neuter/spay, you want a breeder who requires you to keep the dog as an indoor pet. if they dont bring these up to you on there own and ask you or tell you, I wouldn't go anywhere near them.

[JsMom]

Gosh! My head is spinning! A year in advance or better - OK - that's what I'm looking for. There's a big dog show near me this weekend and I plan to buy a program so I can get the breeder listings and start my "homework".
Does anyone know of any reputable breeders in my area? I'd love to watch for their dogs at the show.

Someone did give me a link to a Maryland breeder that looks very promising. I'm quite smitten with a particular dam there and they will be breeding her next spring. They have posted all her particulars: Hips: (Good) Eyes: (Clear 4/2005) Elbows: Thyroid: Normal Heart: DNA: (I took out the numbers on these.) What are the hip ratings? Poor, good, excellent? I just don't know what to look for.

Everything seems so much more complicated than it did 17 years ago! jugglex1 :054

Ah - I posted too soon - now reading at the GRCA.org. :054

[Arielle]

IMO any breeder can ask lots of questions before, but what makes a breeder stand out in my Mind is how they treat you and your Golden AFTER you've spent the money for the puppy and what turns out to be true and what turns out not to be.

I thought I had gotten Sum from a good breeder but she left me with a bad taste in my mouth the entire time after. and I thought I had a healthy Golden, Now my rescue girl who was originally from a pet store (which I would never buy from but her original owner did) has outlived my "reputable breeder" golden, she has been healthier, more active, and lived longer than he did, and it breaks my heart because he was my heart and soul and I just hope to God that the fear and heartbreak in my voice the last time I spoke to her when I was trying to find out why he was dying haunt her til the day she dies just the way watching him die like he did will haunt me.

No... I'm not bitter!!!!

I won't buy a puppy from a breeder again, not in a long long while, maybe not ever, but I will rescue as many Goldens as I can and take them all in as my beloved children.

[Roxy]

Can you go to a breeder and be subjective(meaing, walk away if something doesn't seem right)? Can you sign a contract with a breeder that states their demands over your dog? Really question yourself about what you expect. If these Golden puppies weren't so dam cute then there wouldn't be a problem. Don't be put off by the appearances of a breeder. Recently I went to a "recognized" breeder for some advice. His Humvee in the driveway and two litters at once said volumes. He had bred his bitches on back to back heats and his last words of advice was"the moneys good".
Made me sick to my stomach. To me he's nothing but a puppy farm. He didn't truly care about the breed...just the greed.

[hgatesy]

I was recently online just looking at various GR websites. I love looking at pictures, and just "shopping" around to see different breeders. I came across one particular website that just made me laugh. I didn't really find it funny, but I just had to laugh because... well... to sum it up, this is what it said.
Their puppies have been raised by thier children. They are NOT professional breeders. Their family spends a minimum of 2 hours per day playing or 'socializing' the puppies. The litter they had which is their females second, had 3 males and 6 females. Both of the parents are said to be in excellent health and are family pets. The proud dad loves to run like the wind, and fetch. The proud mom is extremely loving. They had pictures and stated that one can see by the pictures that they are in excellent shape because they both love to run on their large home in the country. Oh, and all money will go to children's college funds.

Hmmmm.... ?? No health guarentee's, no questionaire's to fill out to get a pup... no... I'll just stop there.

[hgatesy]

I also came across a website (different one) selling those mix-breed designer dogs. They were talking about there being no such thing as "puppy mills", only sub-standard kennels. That they enjoy raising puppies, and are proud of their work. It's just sad that people actually buy pups from places like this.

[catsdogskids67]

I have a specific breeder in mind and am fairly certain all is
"go", but there is another I have also communicated with who is *almost* on-target ( and WAY cheaper, although still pricey enough)--has parents on-site, provides instructions and follow-up, comes recommended, has gorgeous dogs with good lineage--some titles, some not, but all have good or excellent hips--BUT these folks don't do CERF clearances.
They do hearts and hips.
Why on earth would someone not do CERF's? I don't get it.
I also see a lot, BTW, where the CH males are done but not the girls.

[KCGoldens]

I used to have two goldens.

One I had for a very long time, she came from champion stock, but the females didn't have certs. The breeder BSed me. Cayenne, my older golden, had horrible hips, ear problems, and as she got older, she had to be on prescription food. I had to euthanize her Tuesday. No pet owner should have to go thur this, but I did because I did not know any better and used a questionable breeder.

My second golden was vet breed. The vet's goal in his breeding progam, to breed the healtiest companion pet possible, physically meeting breed standards. Our male was the grand son of Faires future Classic. This dog had certs on certs. He is OFA Excellent certified and is perfect. He excels at hunting, tracking, and my daughter (she adopted him from us because she loved him and he needed ALOT of room he is so much Golden!) cannot keep him in her house, he loves to sleep in the barn and watch after her horses. He is beautiful, healthy and living a goldens life to the fullest.

My older golden never got a life like this. Why? Because my older goldens breeder did a really CRAPPY job. He made alot of money doing a CRAPPY job, and he produced goldens for over a decade that suffered horribly before he got put out of business. This makes me sad and angry.

Save your money, take your time, find a good breeder, your new golden will thank you.

If your golden is less than perfect, you will spend thousand and thousands on it over the next decade, or worse, if you do not have the thousands to spend your sick golden what will happen to it?

[ash]

Here is my input!

A Breeder (with a Capital "B") is one who thirsts for knowledge & never really knows it all, one who wrestles with decisions of conscience, convince, and commitment.

A Breeder is one who sacrifices personal interests, finances, time, fancy furniture, and deep pile carpeting! She gives up the dream of long luxurious cruises in favor of turning that all important show into this years "vacation"

The Breeder goes without sleep (but never without coffee/cola!) In hours spent planning a breeding or watching anxiously over the birth process, and afterwards, over every little sneeze, wiggle or cry.

The Breeder skips dinner parties because that litter is due or the babies have to be fed at eight. She disregards birth fluids and puts mouth to mouth to save a gasping newborn, literally blowing life into a tiny, helpless creature that may be the culmination of a lifetime of dreams.

A Breeder's lap is a marvelous place where generations of proud and noble champions once snoozed.

A Breeders hands are strong and firm and often soiled, but ever so gentle and sensitive to the thrusts of a puppy's wet nose.

A Breeders back and knees are usually arthritic from stooping, bending, and sitting in the birthing box, but are strong enough to enable the breeder to show the next choice pup to a championship.

A Breeders shoulders are stooped and often heaped with abuse from competitors, but they're wide enough to support the weight of a thousand defeats and frustrations.

A Breeders arms are always able to wield a mop, support an arm full of puppies, lend a helping hand to a newcomer.

A Breeders ears are wondrous things, sometimes red (From being talked about) or strangely shaped (From being pressed against a phone receiver), Often deaf to criticism, yet always fine-tuned to the whimper of a sick puppy.

A Breeders eyes are blurred from pedigree research and sometimes blind to her own dog's faults, but they are ever so keen to competition's faults and are always searching for the perfect specimen.

A Breeders brain is foggy on faces, but it can recall pedigrees faster than an IBM Computer. It's so full of knowledge that sometimes it blows a fuse; It catalogues thousands of good boning, fine ears, and perfect heads.......And buries it in the soul, the failures and the ones that didn't turn out.

The Breeders heart is often broken, but it beats strongly with hope everlasting........And it's always in the right place!

OH, YES, THERE ARE BREEDERS, AND THERE ARE

BREEDERS!!!

-Author Unknown

[heather r]

Ash;

What a great definition of a Breeder!

I bet that you are one like the breeder (good, tired and responsible) as in the description.

By the way, how about some more pics of your beauties?

Heather R :reddogx