Opinions on Puppy temperment / personality test

[Dianna]

I am wondering how much faith each of U have in this subject...I am asking because I am do some reading on this out of one of my books and this well known trainer does not have a whole lot of faith in them...

What do you think?

[CanadianGolden423]

I know I suggested it :lol BUT....quite a lot! It tests the puppy's reaction to different stimuli and can help indicate many things. For example, sound sensitivity can be assessed by banging a spoon on a metal pot and then dropping them and walking away. A bolder pup may look and investigate, or even bark, while a shy puppy will ignore it or run away. There isn't really a question over whether to "have faith" in them...you are comparing puppies' reactions. A dog that runs away, for example, would score a 6 (on a 1-6 scale), while one that stares and walks toward the object quietly would get perhaps a 3 or a 2. Dogs with mostly 3s are usually good performance dogs (Delta's had straight 3s, she is VERY energetic, extremely high drive and eager to please, but can be a wuss- the first time our other dog snarled at her, she ran and yelped loudly for over 30 seconds).

Samra

[Gracie]

Hi, Dianna:

The CCI trainer and I used the Volhard test on Beau's litter. Because we were looking for a "service" puppy, we wanted a pup that scored mostly 3's and some 4's. We conducted the test when the litter was 6 weeks old (a little young). We automatically eliminated the 2 pups that were nipping and tackling their littermates with zest. We picked Beau, than we went back out 3 days later to conduct the test again...Beau was the one that the trainer felt had the right temperment for service.

I'm not sure how reliable these test are, but Beau is a terrific golden and is doing well with his training. I think the idea is to pick a puppy that suits your personality. Some people like the alpha personality-my mom was drawn to a pup in Beau's litter that was a real coach potato. I needed a calm, submissive, yet inquisitive pup that had the interest and energy for service training.

The Volhard test is easy to do...I would recommend conducting the test when the litter is at least 7 weeks old and doing the test twice if you can. Before you go to the breeder's, decide what kind of temperment you are looking for. And take your time-a good breeder will be patient with you and help you with the testing...

[Marie39]

What if the breeder did the test and makes the pick? What if you are not as confident in the choice as you would like to be? Do you walk away from that litter, or do you take the chance and trust the breeder?

[Goldenheart]

<span style="font-family:georgia; color:maroon;">I'm glad you bounced this back up here, my question too it all was how can one really know the golden and how it will be after it has went through the window that was mentioned in this article, as well as after it has been put through socialization.<img border=0 src="http://www.topgoldenretrieversites.net/smiles/415.gif" />

I realize a breeder knows the puppies pretty well, but what they don't know is how one will do after the socialization period. My way of thinking is someone could look at a puppy that pulled back but after socialization this very puppy may be the direct opposite of this.</span>

[Rick C]

I'm nothing but a raw amateur on this subject and have had only one experience with it.

Our puppy Abby had the test before we got her and the prediction, summarized, was she would be "very intelligent, willful and independent."

It was dead on accurate in every respect. She's uncanny smart but likes to make her own decisions and is only selectively obedient.

Rick C
www.***************

[KCGoldens]

Thunder had the same prediction as Abby. "very intelligent, willful and independent."

Another bullseye on the temperment test. He is turning out just that way. (but he is still incredibly sweet).

[Gracie]

I, too, have a lot of faith in the Volhard test. I agree with CanadianGolden-it is an indicator of how the pup reacts to stimuli. Beau has turned out just the way he tested...he is confident, smart, a little on the submissive side, but not fearful...mostly 3s with some 4s-all of these personality traits required from a service dog.

I think there is a nature vs. nuture argument as well...a dog that is well taken care of and receives regular training will have a nice temperament (of course, there are always exceptions) A friend of mine adopted a pound puppy that is a Rott mix...he most certainly has an alpha personality that could be of concern. Because of the love, exercise and training they give him, at age 2, he is a wonderful, predictable boy- a dog I trust and enjoy being around.

[ldpusateri]

Holly had the same prediction as Abby & Thunder. "very intelligent, willful and independent." Mostly 2's with a 1 and a 3. And today is definitely one of those "willful" days!!!!! :evil

[Marieppie]

This is interesting. This is anwering a question I had on another thread but probably should have asked differently. I hear that some people don't believe this kind of testing is reliable in knowing how a dog's temperament will be later on. Who has had experience that makes them believe this kind of testing (or intuition of the breeder) is unreliable?

[kencubilo]

Sorry to disagree but I think pup testing is a big crock. Between the time the pups are tested and the time they start to reach adulthood and service life a lot of changes do take place. I have seen brave dominant pups become shy and submissive, I have seen the calm laid back pup become a real hellfire. I train my dogs for selective scent tracking I gave a test to both Abbi and Desi, Abbi scored low on the test which would have made her get passed over if a agency was going to adopt the pups. However now at 11 mo/s old She is the most fantastic dedicated and serious scent tracker out of the two. Desi on the other hand showed signs of being submissive and even at times scared of her own shadow unless her sister was with her. Today Desi is the gutsy one and wants to be the leader of the pack as far as dogs are concerned. Think about this when humans have a baby and the first time it smiles or winks you hear maybe someday he/she will be President. How many do?

[Marieppie]

:D All three of my kids are very different, and although the older two are VERY different than they were as infants, their toddler temperaments have so far been on track with their childhood temperaments. I think their life experiences could either foster or harm those temperaments, though.
Thanks for sharing your perspective and story ken! I'd love to hear more stories on both sides.

[Marty]

I had requested from my breeder a very layed-back pup....Bingo! Right on the money! He was temperment tested at 7weeks. Ty will be a year old on the 20th. I have to drag my handsome young man out of bed in the morning....he will be a great sleep-in dog when I retire...LOL :D

[monomer]

I see a BIG problem with this method of getting proof for the validity of puppy temperament testing.

First there are many variations on this puppy temperament testing theme... but most seem to divide puppy temperaments into 5 to 8 different categories. Just for the sake of argument, let's suppose that there is absolutely NO connection what-so-ever between puppy temperament testing and the adult dog's disposition. How many choices does a puppy temperament testing provide for? let's say 8... nervous, shy, fearful, calm, dominant/animal aggressive, dominant/people aggressive, responsive, independent. In ~13% of the cases a puppy will grow up to match his temperament results even if there really is no connection... If there are only 5 categories then 1 in 5 will match. But the odds are actually a lot better than that for certain types of temperaments because not all temperament categories are of equal likelihood... remember dogs are bred as pets (therefore more puppies should tend towards 'calm' than 'fearful' for example). Now figure that certain breeds of dogs will produce higher percentages of certain temperament types (like GRs will tend to be calmer and steadier as adults than many other breeds of dogs) and the odds increase even more assuming people who get a GR are also people desiring a "calm" temperament result. When asking for experiences of puppy temperaments matching the adult dog's disposition on a GR forum, it's very possible to get more than 50% of the responses to say... my puppy temperament testing said I would have a calm dog and my GR grew into a calm adult and therefore puppy temperament testing must be valid. ...You do see the problem in logic being used here? NOW add to this the highly subjective nature of how one determines which temperament category their adult dog actually fits into (also remember what's accepted as calm for one breed may be quite another thing for a different breed) so... you can forget about any collection of anecdotes lending validity to anything one way or the other.

I believe this thread was revived for the purpose of easing the conscious of someone who gave back a puppy because they felt overwhelmed when the actual puppy experience didn't fit their idea of what it was supposed to be like. I don't know if their action was right or wrong... but I do believe raising a puppy is serious business.

Stories were requested... so here's two...
Case 1: Our last dog, an American Eskimo, was named Kimo. (This breed has a reputation of being yappy biters.) According to the breeder's testing he was to be calm and of neutral aggressiveness. We taught him not to bite in less than a week (in only 2 days actually). As an adult, he feared nothing and no one... he was an "in your face" type of dog... very curious about everything new. He was also very friendly and was never aggressive to anything (human, dog, cat, bird, etc.) Though he was a very energetic dog, trust me, he was considered quite calm for this breed.

Case 2: Sidney is our latest dog and he is a Golden Retriever. Sidney is now almost 5 months old. The puppy testing showed he would be a calm dog (duh, every puppy in the litter tested to be calm) but not very attracted to people. It took us over 6 weeks to finally get Sidney to stop biting so often (but we are finding he still makes little mistakes from time to time... we now believe its because retrievers, as with most sporting breeds of dogs, are so very oral by nature). Though Sidney at first appeared to not necessarily be attracted to people, he has since blossomed into a real social butterfly... he just loves everyone and everything. Will he be calm as an adult??? Oh yeah... I just know he's going to be a real sweetheart!

...so because puppy temperament testing said both our dogs would be calm as adults and one was calm and the next will most likely also be calm as an adult, ...does this validate puppy temperament testing? OR ...does this mean our home environment and training methods are conducive to turning any puppy into a calm adult dog (relative to the breed, of course)? ...you can read into it whatever you want.

If the professionals can't even agree on this subject, how are we laypeople suppose to.

[Kels]

I know all about pup personality tests, but are they always accurate? Can you really tell by 8 weeks if the pup is going to be high drive or calm as the breeze? :dogbark

Thanx=) :054 :204

[goodtim'n]

"I" personally say, "NO", It's like trying to guarentee a show pup, only time will tell, You may get some indications, but I've been fooled, and I have been involved with dogs in breeding, showing, training, grooming, for over 30 yrs.

[theGoldenPup]

The most important thing you can gain from them is how well socialized the puppies are, how used they are to being handled and the such. I think these are more effective on older puppies, but its nothing that can be told 'for sure'.
Later, their temperments can be quite different as a result of their experiences, but just to an extent.

GoldenPup

[Rocky's Mom]

I have a friend that does Agility with Germ. Sheps. She got a new puppy over the summer from a friend who is an expereinced breeder and they puppy tested him and so far he is not turning out anything like the test said. My first Golden (21 years ago), I WISH I had known about the testing....I ended up with the Alpha puppy and it was a hard 10 years with him....When we got Rocky I tested him and basicly I was interested in submission (because of my expereince). We wanted a playful puppy too. Rocky is very submissive and a real sweet heart....doesn't want to "work" or lean anything though....and my first one had a very strong drive to learn and "work". From what I have read, if you test too early or too late it can throw it off and also, it is suppose to be done by someone the puppies don't know, in a room they are not familar with and separate from the other puppies so there is lots of room for it to not be done right I guess. But my friend with the GSD does not belive in the testing after her expereince.