breeding!

[abzndbonnie]

undefined
i am thinking of having one litter of puppies from my golden retriever bitch . I have researched into it and know that alot of people have strong concerns that your bitch should be a champion. My bitch is not but has a strong obedience ability and a fabulous temperament. I would sell the puppies in a country area for pets. I am going to go and get hip and eye scores for her and also i am working towards the money to have incase anything goes not to plan. The only thing i am really unsure of is when a bitch goes into season? If anybody has any opinions or advice they would like to throw my way i am willing to listen.
kind regards
abbie ;)

[theGoldenPup]

Thanks for doing research first!
Planning ahead is the big thing to do.
When you say your dog has 'strong obedience ability' does that mean she has obedience titles? One of the reasons I suggest that people have a Champion title (and many others!) on their dog before breeding is experience. Just as important, if not more than your dog actually getting the title after your hard work, is the knowledge you pick up from being around many great dog people. And then you'll be able to also talk to breeders who could help you plan the breeding if you decide to continue with that plan.
I understand that you really want to breed your dog, and I'm keeping that in mind while I word this next comment. Breeding is a serious responsibility. You have to ask yourself, "Will this really improve the breed's health, genetics and reputation? There are currently more than enough 'pet' dogs, purebred and mixed that need homes.
You will also have to be responsible for all the puppies throughout their lives. Finding good homes for the puppies before you even think of the breeding, making sure they are spayed and neutered, taking them back if there is a problem or the people just don't want them anymore. And being there for the owners from puppy chewing, to questions about if its time when thier dog is older.
You should note, that after showing, vet costs, stud fees, puppy care, and everything else, that you aren't going to make money, you'll probably end up looseing quite a bit. Up to thousands of dollars! Its NOT a cheap thing to do!
Even if the people you will be selling the puppies to don't care much about the certifications, I'm glad to see that you're planning on doing that. Even if people don't care about 'details' like that, thank you for seeing some of your responsibility!
And, finally, I know I didn't answer your question about when bitches come into heat. I avoided, but I suggest you get MANY books on genetics, breeding, structure, and dog health to read before breeding. You'll find the answer to that, and many more things there.
Hope some of this helped. If you want more on breeding, there are numerous posts of people in somewhat similar situations as you, so do a search with the search function near the top of this page...
Thanks again, for researching FIRST.
GoldenPup

[Dogli]

Liberty,my puppy,didn't have either parents as champions. Her dam has a wonderful temperment though,and it sounds like the sire does too. The dam also does therapy work with people in hospitals with the Delta Society. They both have dogs with titles in their pedigree,and one in particular has many titles(Rush Hill's Haagen-Dazs) Also keep in mind that you will profit very little from breeding your dog,or you might not have as much money as you started with. Getting a reputable breeder as a mentor will help you with any questions or problems you may have. I will repeat what theGoldenPup said as it is highly important,always ask yourself if this will better the breed in some way. You may just want to sell 'pet' puppies,but breeders that are looking for another champion(of obedience,agility,conformation etc.) usually get mostly pet quality puppies,and maybe a few(or just one) that are suitable for showing or competion homes. You may want to rethink just breeding pet quality puppies,and try to aim for the best. It does sound like you are trying to be responsible by researching and asking questions,though. Thanks for doing that first!

[elvira]

I have bred a litter and I can tell you it's a lot of work. Ofcause when everything goes as you wanted it, it's a pleasure, but realise that a lot of things can go wrong. When I planned the litter I had a lot help from the breeder of my dog and the owner of the father of my dog. The also can help you to find a studdog, they know the lines to avoid and which will give good results with you dog. They also can give you a lot advice about breeding.

[abzndbonnie]

Thanks for that ill take from what you said and go and do a bit more research.Elvira thats a good point i might contact the breeder i got her from and find out more about her lines and get some advice.
What i meant from strong obedience ability is that no she doesn't have titles but is it too late , as she is 5 years old in october this year? I would like to really get into that but i'm not really sure of where to start. She's gona through all obedience training with flying colours and many people asked me if i was trialing her, so shes very respondent.
The only problem i have is when i got her she did not come with papers and the breeder told me i could not get them.
What do you think i should do about that? love hearing from you.
abz

[Dogli]

You could not get them? I don't like the sound of that. One of her parents might not have been registered. You should get an ILP,which stands for Indefinate Listing Privelege. You may still compete with your dog then. I encourage you to start competing even if your dog is 5.
http://www.akc.org/reg/ilpex.cfm
Here you will find out about how to get a ILP and what dogs are eligible.
Go to some obedience trials in your area and watch what the people and dogs have to do in the novice level. They are really basic commands in the beginning.

[abzndbonnie]

Thanks for that! That is an american kennel club though. I live in australia.It also states for an ILP number you have to have proof from the vet that your dog has been spayed or neutered.Can i still apply for this, being in australia?
thanks again
abbie

[Goldenglittergirl]

Please don't breed, there are enought homeless Goldens out there!! Leave it to the reputable, experienced breeders.

I'm sorry but my pet peeve is people constantly coming on here wanting to know if they should breed their Golden because it has a "great temp." GRRRR!!! :mad:

[esterris]

OK here I go. My apologies in advance. I'm really concerned as without papers, I would also question the origins of your dog's parents. Papers alone don't mean quality by any means, but at least your dog is registerable.

After twenty five plus years in dogs, there is only one good reason to breed a dog. Are you improving the breed with an animal who is an exceptional representative of the breed? If so and the only real good way to find out is to enlist the help of a knowledgeable breeder who has been doing something with their dogs, whether its conformation, field, obedience, etc. and who really have the breed's best interest and know which dogs compliment each other as far as breeding goes. Breeding is not about pairing a male and female together to produce puppies. Breeding is not about breeding a female because someone told you that its a good idea or that they want her puppies.

In the 25 years I've been in dogs, I've bred one litter. Two of the three puppies became champions and I am seeing their great grandchildren in the ring now and know all of the health conditions of their relatives.

I am on the brink of finishing my first Golden male. I will be leaving all of the final breeding decisions to his breeder and my co-owner who has bred over 100 champions in the conformation, obedience, field as well as search and rescue, guide dogs, etc. She is intimately aware of all of her dogs that she has bred and placed, pets and competion dogs.

If you have a wonderful dog, love her and cherish her as all of our wonderful Goldens should be. There is nothing "lesser than" or inadequate. Pets are to be loved as well as our show dogs; they all deserve that.

Good luck in your obedience pursuits.

[angenbear]

Considering that your golden is 5 years old, I suggest not to breed her. Pregnancy may take it's toll on her, and may cause problems while pregnancy or after pregnancy. Who will you breed her to, will you be getting a stud? That requires money to get a stud.

You said you're working in getting money, you should be financially stable before having her pregnant. As others say, there's vet cost for both the mom and the puppies, you have 8 weeks and maybe more to support the pups.

Is there really a need to supply the country with pups when there are so many out there in shelter that need a home?

[ilovemydixie]

Please don't breed, there are enought homeless Goldens out there!! Leave it to the reputable, experienced breeders.

I'm sorry but my pet peeve is people constantly coming on here wanting to know if they should breed their Golden because it has a "great temp." GRRRR!!! :mad:
Ditto...Dixie is at the vet getting spayed right now! :p

[abzndbonnie]

Okay, Alot of you think i shouldn't breed and its about the breed becoming better.What is one litter of puppies going to change? I know most of the people i would sell them to and yes i'm going to get a stud dog and i know they cost alot and im prepared for that, also im definately getting bonnie up to a great standard health wise before she has them, i would never put her in danger she means the world to me. I would keep in contact with the vet a hell of alot, because of her age.esterris you must be proud of yourself, your dogs dogs sound like they are going beautifully well. But you all must consider some people dont want to show their dogs.Some are just looking for a family dog, and in australia thats what the golden is known for, the perfect family dog. thankyou for your advice though, but i am really not looking for people to yell and scream telling me not to breed because im not an idiot i will look after these puppies and help their owner until the day they die.
regards abbie

[angenbear]

Okay, Alot of you think i shouldn't breed and its about the breed becoming better.What is one litter of puppies going to change? I know most of the people i would sell them to and yes i'm going to get a stud dog and i know they cost alot and im prepared for that, also im definately getting bonnie up to a great standard health wise before she has them, i would never put her in danger she means the world to me. I would keep in contact with the vet a hell of alot, because of her age.esterris you must be proud of yourself, your dogs dogs sound like they are going beautifully well. But you all must consider some people dont want to show their dogs.Some are just looking for a family dog, and in australia thats what the golden is known for, the perfect family dog. thankyou for your advice though, but i am really not looking for people to yell and scream telling me not to breed because im not an idiot i will look after these puppies and help their owner until the day they die.
regards abbie

The breed will only get better if they aren't overpopulated by people who have a spur of a moment have a feeling they want to breed their bitch just to give people a family dog. You came here asking for advice, and there are strong opinions over the issue since you shouldn't go into breeding lightly. If you aren't taking this lightly, then you would be having plenty of research to apply and financially stable to start the breeding rathe rthan just starting to get the money. That's what we're looking at, what if the vet bills are higher than you think? What if your bitch can't produce milk, then you have to supply milk and supplies for the puppies.

Do your research on how much golden retrievers are sold in your area, how many dogs are found in shelters as well as pups, and if it's common to have golden retrievers there, why add more to the population? Sorry if some of this sounds rude to you, but when someone comes here wanting to breed and ask us our input, we will express it. You can't really express the tone of voice, so sorry if you get that impression. We just want people who get involved in things like breeding that it has to be done after thorough research and financially stable for the sake of the bitch and potential breeders. If you want to be known for a reputable breeder, then it takes a lot of knowledge and applying it. As well as responsibility with each puppy. Some of us feel that there are so many dogs and puppies out in the shelter, and one of the reasons why puppies are there is because some people by them in the spur of the moment without realize that the pup doesn't match their lifestyle or personality.

[goodtim'n]

You needed to say nothing more when you said, WHAT IS ONE LITTER OF PUPPIES GOING TO CHANGE????? That is the problem right there!!!!! If every one thought that way then there would not be enough homes in the whole entire world for ALL of these puppies. One bitch can produce anywhere between 10-15 pups.. Mutiply that by those pups growing up and having pups and so on and so forth. And figure that probably less than 1/2 of these will ever go and have any certification done. So this is what starts the vicious circle of bad breeding, do to uneducated OWNERS!!!!!!!!!!

[abzndbonnie]

sorry if u took that the wrong way, i do not see myself as uneducated, i know that there are alot of puppies in shelters and its a really bad problem, thats why i am going to kepp in touch with the owners!! as i said before.
i want to make sure that that doesnt happen, what do u think i want it to? angenbear thanks atleast your trying to give me some advice, i will go and see about how they sell around my area, if this is going to happen i am going to sell them privately, hopefully that will help any old person coming along and that will help the puppies being thrown into shelters problem.Half of you people must think im mad, but im taking it slowly so please, dont go crazy.

[goodtim'n]

Trying to stay in touch with each pups owners is almost impossible to do over a period of time. Are you going to have LIMITED registrations put on these pups???? Or can they just go and get bred and then every one can have a PUPPY, boy won't that be great!!!!!! You should really read the post and replies from those that have lost there pup/dog due to bad breeding, It is heartbreaking, after one hard hit on the HEART from these wonderful dogs, and you get quiet defensive of having more poor quality bred pups/dogs out here and to those that INSIST that, JUST ONE LITTER WON'T HURT!!!!! Well it does HURT!!! Not only the owners but also the pups/dogs, that have to live a hard life due to health issues, and structual weakness.

[theGoldenPup]

Thanks for sticking around and at least reading what we have to say.
I'm not really familiar with how things are for you, my Aussie buddies are all cat people. I do know however that there are many great great dog people. Could you contact other breeders and get their advice and suggestions, they would probably be the ones who best know of your area. I highly suggest just talking to the breeders who show and are active in dogs, not the pet breeder (who generally know much less about dogs. generally.).
....and I can say from experience...handfeeding is an experience that can drive you crazy....!
Hope things go well for both of you. Read, read, and read!

GoldenPup

[abzndbonnie]

thanks yeah i will! I'm trying to learn as much as possible, there are alot of cat people around we have some beautiful ones..id like to hear alot more!

[Goldenglittergirl]

I have to agree with what goodtimn said when she had mentioned whats one litter going to change. Actually it will change a lot! You do sound very undeducated when it comes to breeding. What does your bitch have as in the way of bettering the breed? Anything???If she has no titles then you would be considered an unreputable breeder. Most breeders have the puppies spoken for prior to the breeding taking place, from what you said you do not, again irresponsible!!!!

Please leave it to the reputable breeders that have 20 plus years under their belt when it comes to breeding, we don't need anymore Goldens ending up in Shelters!


Oh and since you said "whats just one litter" check out this site...funny you should mention those exact words..


www.justonelitter.com

[esterris]

Thank you. I am very proud of my dogs. I have waited and jumped through the hoops and been patient in order to have the quality of animals that I have. I made sure to choose dogs that had the potential to be bred and whose breeder I respected, admired and who could mentor me. Early on, I wanted to have a dog that I could breed also. However, because the dogs I had were pet quality and I was fortunate enough to work for a top Irish breeder fulltime, I learned about breeding ethics before I made that mistake. I loved and cherished my pets and knew that when the time was right, I would get a dog that I could campaign and breed only if appropriate.

Aside from the ethical issue, breeding has alot of surprises. After alot fo money campaigning her to her championship, getting her health clearances, and breeding her using the safest technology (artificial insemination because of sexually transmited diseases), special nutrition, ultrasounds, transvaginal douches to prevent her from absorbing her puppies. She almost required a C-Section because the first puppy presented sideways and was stuck in the birth cannel. We lost the last puppy because she labored so long. My one male in the litter died at one week - I ended up with three puppies in the litter. This is not an easy proposition.

Its not about breeding show dogs. One litter that has been well planned bred between two dogs that compliment each other pedigree wise and conformation wise, may produce a couple puppies that are breeding/show quality. If bred by an ethical breeder, those puppies will be carefully sold into pet homes on a spay/neuter agreement as family dogs. That is how it is ethically done.

Two-thirds of our shelter population are purebred dogs. My best friend has been in animal control for 25 years. Many goldens are abandoned because the owners did not know how to take care of a Golden, or wasn't prepared for the training/socialization this breed requires. Many Goldens are abandoned because of hip problems that the owners don't have the money to correct surgically, etc., etc., etc.

Again, love and cherish your dog. I know that you feel that everyone is attacking you about the breeding question. It sounds to me that you are just not hearing what you want to hear. I don't think anyone should condone this.

[Rocky's Mom]

I will probably get a lot of people mad and yelling at me too after this post, BUT.....it's not always a black and white issue. I grew up breeding/showing Collies. We were very well known and respected in the breed. It was DRILLED into my head that there were two kinds of people. The good breeders and the backyard breeders. After begging for a GR and my parents saying no for years, I got married and my husband said yes to a GR. I of course went through our dog connections and got a puppy from a VERY well known GR breeder on Long Island. Joshua grew up to be GEORGOUS. The breeders wanted to take him out and finish him...I just wanted a pet. Well after several months I got a call....seems a bunch of the puppies had some congenital health problem...was Joshua having any problems like that? No (fortuanatly). We were having an aggression problem with him...partly I think he was the Alpha puppy, but some of it was something else. I found out that a sister they kept to show ended up with such a nasty personality she had to be separtated from the other dogs.....how ungolden!! Well, when Josh died at 10, we got another (Rocky). I got him from a friend who had a litter. She xrays hips, elbow, has eyes certified and they are healthy puppies. She doesn't show or anything like that....is she bettering the breed? By the standard that some breeders use as bettering the breed I guess not.But people who have gotten a puppy from her go back for more because they end up being great dogs and healthy. Rocky is a WONDERFUL dog. He does not have any where near the confirmation that Joshua had, but he is a much better dog. I had people ask me if they could use Josh at stud because he was so georgous and incredibly smart and trainable...but because of his personality problems I would never do that. I know that in many parts of the country GR go for $1000!!! My kids paid that for their first car!! I think that you can be a "responsible" breeder in having a litter of healthy puppies, having the parents certified, carefully checking out the prospective owners of the puppies and putting out puppies that dont' cost $1000 and might not win any shows, but are in keeping with what the standard says for type and personality. Everyone always says there are so many dogs in the shelters etc. But not everyone wants a mix breed or an older dog or can afford $1000. I know how expensive it is to have a litter of puppies, we did it for years......but I just think there is a grey area, where someone can be a "responsible breeder" for a litter, do it right one time and put out some nice puppies into good homes.

[Goldenglittergirl]

Thats exactly it, this person is not "hearing" what they want too, therefore we are being hard on this poster. :(

There is some very good advice here, wheather you chose to use it or not is your decision. I just hope you decide too in the end and PLEASE don't breed!!

I have heard enough to make up my mind about what type of breeder you would be, end of story!

[esterris]

There are bad breeders out there that do show. There are no guarantees. However, you have better luck, with a referral from the GRCAA. There are also breeders out there showing in the "international" ring, where quality doesn't count and you can get a championship in one day. I know, because I rescued a bitch from people like that. I know of several and wouldn't go there. I'm just sick and tired of encouraging people to breed, because they have such a wonderful bitch and everyone wants their puppies. Those people that you get puppies from don't require spay/neuter contracts and their puppies are out there being bred also, thus perpetuating the cycle. GRRRRRRRRR

[Goldenglittergirl]

Amen to what esterris said! cheerleade

You know first off this isn't a breeding type board. This is a board for everyday people that want to talk about their GRs' and share stories and such, get advice on food, health, and training, do you see a section for breeding on this board?

If you don't like whats being said, then maybe you could go to some breeding board where everyone there will agree with you as they have no standards for breeding either!!! Grrrrrrrr!!!

[goodtim'n]

I am glad I am a private breeder!!!!!!! ;) Figure that one out????? :cool:

[angenbear]

My concern is that you have a 5 year old female. and I don't think she should be bred, I think it would be too much, and do you want to risk her life just so you can get one litter? If people there want a family dog, they can get one from the shelter or from a reputable breeder. Why pay the cost for a stud and vet bills when you may have put your female at rest. Please get a few opinions on the health of your female rather than getting it from one vet's advice.

Here are some sites you may find interesting and helpful:

F.A. Q's (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dogs-faq/breeding/)

breeding info (http://www.angelfire.com/oh/australianshep/breeding.html)

[abzndbonnie]

i love how you all say im not "hearing" what i want to and i just want to hear people saying breed your dog who cares! well how do you know what type of breeder i would be if you've only ever spoken to me over the internet?
I'm sorry but im not going to sit back and let people take advantage of this situation and think their way is always the right way.I came on here being polite and i did ask for advice and i said i was willing to listen and that is what i am doing. Dont you think i would quit this forum if i didnt want to hear it.And this is an open discussion forum and it is about golden retrievers so if you dont want to read it simply dont click on it. it isnt hard.I see alot of people hate the idea , so maybe i will wait and have bonnie as just a pet and later on breed another golden, i too was concerned about the age.
But you see you all have put words in my mouth saying i wasn't hearing what i wanted to hear. I want to get bonnie more into the agility side of things at the moment, i have been talking to other breeders from australia.
So please, i have been considerate towards you, i'd like the same respect back. i didn't come here to have an argument with other breeders, i came here for advice. You should feel good about that, some people dont even ask anyone they just go and do it.

[goodtim'n]

You say you came here for advice, Don't you think that is what you got!!!!!! ***SENSITIVE BREED---SENSITIVE OWNERS*** :dogbark You got to take the, "GOOD" with the "BAD" :rolleyes:

[abzndbonnie]

i didn't say i didnt get it? i said that i came here for advice not for an argument :confused:

[goodtim'n]

There has been no arguments, Just advice, You post a question and you get advice, I haven't seen any fists yet, only advice, peoples input, and knowledge, alot of us has been involved in this breed for a longggg time, myself 20 yrs. I also own a grooming shop and a training facility and in both situations I deal with dogs that can't preform simple tasks, due to poor, uncalculated, uneduacted people breeding structually unsound, unhealthy dogs. It's heartbreaking. The only way to help prevent this is to research the bloodlines and have clearances done. They do not have to be the top notch show dogs, but there is guidelines to make sure that the future of this breed is not damaged any further than it already is, The future of the GOLDEN, also depends on people like us on this forum,,This site is world wide and reaches a lot of poeple, This is why WE SPEAK UP SO LOUDLY, This is a very, if not the most popular breed of dog, and with that a lot of people think they will have pups and make every one happy, but the sad story is that alot of these pups are bred poorly and not only is the new owners not happy, but neither is the unhealthy, structurally weak, sickly pup!!!!! This is FACT and ADVICE!!!!

[abzndbonnie]

your rude. Just because you have a job with them you suddenly tel everyone what they can do. I dont want to be on this forum , you put people off americans. I havent said anything rude to you but all of a sudden you spit the dummy! well if i was anyone else i wouldnt waste my time im going to go spend it with my dog i think thats what you should be doing rather than telling everyone else how to do it.
good bye

[goodtim'n]

I'm sorry that you feel I was rude, it was not meant to be rude. I have a lot of experience in working with dogs, and have seen alot of sadddd cases. This is not rudeness. You must be open minded and listen which I feel that if YOU are not hearing what you want to hear then you feel disrespected. I can not tell anyone what to do, whether it be on this site or in my own backyard. I did not SUDDENLY start knowing what I'm doing, I've LISTENED AND LEARNED, and I still am today. There is so much advice on this forum, it's incredible!!!! No one was intentionallly setting out to spit the dummy (whatever that means) we were only replying to your question. Sorry if you didn't get the replies you were hoping for!!!!! We all Love Our GOLDENS and we try to protect and better the health of them for THIER FUTURE. :dogbark You brought the question to the table and I responded, this is only an opinion, and you got offended by it!!!!

[rem55555]

A lot of issues were covered in thread about abzndbonnie wanting to breed her Golden Retriever including the dog's age, cost, and the puppies health. But another thing to consider is the puppy's tempermant.

I purchased Dylan, a Golden Retriever, 12 years ago. As a puppy, Dylan cause around a $1000 worth of damage in my house. He chewed up the tiles on the kitchen floor, chewed up an expensive pair of cowboy boots, urinated in my VCR, permantly damaging it and chewed up furniture. I woke up in the middle of the night in my waterbed because Dylan found where I put the water in and chewed a hole in it. The result was I woke up in 2 or 3 inches of water. Came home from work one night to find out he broke through the childproof gate that kept him in the kitchen and got into the livingroom. Dylan got a hold of countless magazines and news papers and made quite the mess. But I forgave him almost immediately. It took Dylan about 3 or 4 years to completely "calm down". But never in a million years did I think of placing him in a animal shelter. How many people would put up with a puppy with that type of behavior, costing them money for the damage they caused. Not to many I bet.

Abzndbonnie said that one liiter shouldn't matter. Well even if one of those puppies should go to an animal shelter, that's one puppy too many. But it seems like she has made up her mind already and has taken offense because people aren't telling her what she wants to hear. With an attitude like that, she has no business rasing Golden Retriever puppies.

Dylan passed away over a month ago. He was 12 years old. He was the love of my life and I still miss him terribly. When the time is right, I plan on adopting an older Golden Retriever from either Adopt a Golden or from an animal shelter. His/her age is not important. What is important that a Golden spends his life in a loving home rather than an animal shelter.

[Rocky's Mom]

Thats exactly it, this person is not "hearing" what they want too, therefore we are being hard on this poster. :(

There is some very good advice here, wheather you chose to use it or not is your decision. I just hope you decide too in the end and PLEASE don't breed!!

I have heard enough to make up my mind about what type of breeder you would be, end of story!

Are you talking to me or Abzndbonnie? I think she DOES sound like she is being responsible and is hearing what you all are saying. She also seems like she is not just jumping into this idea of breeding, but is thinking it through and researching it and also preparing for things that might go wrong. I have know some really good breeders and some awful ones over the years (in different breeds), but sometimes I think they can take a "holier than thou" attitude and don't give enough credit to the "regular" people out there who are capable of putting out A healthy, affordable litter of puppies into loving families. Life is not always black and white.

[esterris]

Its not just about healthy and affordable puppies. It's about preserving the breed standard. Most people who are backyard or "just one litter" breeders do not sell on spay neuter contracts or limited registrations. The puppy owners then think it's a good idea to breed their dogs, thus perpetuating the "funky" conformation, temperament, etc. we see today. Most people have no idea how to pick a stud that is complimentary to a bitch pedigree, health, temperament or conformation. And I'll repeat it again - it isn't about breeding for the show ring. It's about breeding to better the breed and preserve good genetics.

[Goldenglittergirl]

your rude. Just because you have a job with them you suddenly tel everyone what they can do. I dont want to be on this forum , you put people off americans. I havent said anything rude to you but all of a sudden you spit the dummy! well if i was anyone else i wouldnt waste my time im going to go spend it with my dog i think thats what you should be doing rather than telling everyone else how to do it.
good bye

Nice attitude, and she wants to breed? :204 I have just one word--scary!!!! :(

[esterris]

To Golden Litter Girl:

I love your puppy - I know Apollo well - gorgeous dog. Go to all my posts and there should be a pic of my boy in there. I'm just getting tired of having this discussion with people about breeding, but I'm so passionate about not backyard breeding, I get caught up in it. On one hand, I feel like I'm being cavalier, but on the other, I've jumped through alot of hoops to get what I've got and I truly felt like I did the right thing when I had my one litter.

I just don't understand why people can't just love and cherish their pets, but don't reproduce them unless they are exceptional representatives of the breed.

[Goldenglittergirl]

Hi esterris! Yes, I feel very compassionate about breeding when it comes to these types of debates. I don't mean to sound rude, but I have seen so many homeless "purebreeds" in shelters.. :(

Oh wow you know Apollo? Thats so cool! How do you know him?

[abzndbonnie]

This is my last post in this breeding forum. I HAVE listened to you all and i have decided as i said before i am NOT going to breed bonnie. She has gone past her age limit i feel and i don't want to put her in danger. Thankyou for the advice but i have been dissapointed with some of the comments that have come out of this forum. I think getting the point through can be made diferently and a bit more polite. I stil have heaps of time to get more into the dog business and one day i know i will have a good litter of pups but theres a bit more work to do before i do that.
So i was hearing what i wanted to hear and i have made a decision by myself, and considered it, and from the start i never did say i was DEFINATELY going to do it.Bonnie is the best dog i have ever had and we share alot together, so she is very special to me. I am not careless about dogs all my friends call me a dog freak! its not that i dont care its that i just wanted to think about it and see if breeding could have been alright.
I hope to continue and really get into the dog business.
Thankyou all for replying and i will continue learning about dogs,
abbie + bonnie

[goodtim'n]

We are not bad people and neither are you. It's just a very dedicated, devoted, pack of people who like yourself love the breed. By being careful with the breed, it will hopefully help to elimidate a lot of the problems that keep showing up, and making new owners and pup/dogs have a difficult life. Research is knowledge, input is knowledge, don't close the door to that.... Work with the ones within the breed, the ones who have deeply commited their life, time and assets to help provide better quality pups/dogs. These are the ones who make purchasing that new found friend, worthwhile. Producing pups out of any breed, still requires work, education, and research. You may very well be on the right track, keep you ears and eyes open, it's a big world out there and a lot of information. Be open minded!!!!! It will work to your favor, Listen and Learn!!!! I still do every day, this site is full of information and it all about GOLDENS!!! :dogbark

[lotsagoldies]

Everytime this subject comes up people end up sounding hostile. There are certainly great points made by both sides. Two of my Gr's are from a history of Champs on both sides, 2 are not as "nobel". If the breeder is good and reputable(references, references, references) then whether they show or not is not of ANY importance to me! I KNOW, SHOCKING! :eek: I did not put this much thought into HAVING CHILDREN, checking my husbands heart, hips, eyes and everything in his or his families history!!! DID ANYONE ELSE?? If they have their clearances and the bredder is reputable.........enough said. There's a line between opinionated and offensive and I see people crossing it. :(

[Acamarrr]

After twenty five plus years in dogs, there is only one good reason to breed a dog. Are you improving the breed with an animal who is an exceptional representative of the breed?

I couldn't have said it better. My Riki was an exceptional dog, and an exceptional Golden -- and that's more than just a proud mommy talking, since she didn't run across a single person (even dog-haters) who didn't agree. But she was barely inside the breed standard for height, and the coloring on her head was such that it made her look like she had a lumpy skull -- it was one of the reasons she had a hard time getting points toward her championship. All in all, it was a reason not to breed. Certainly, her temperament and obedient nature made her an ideal Golden -- but her size and coloring did not. I wasn't ready to breed based on her having only half a Golden's ideal characteristics -- she needed the whole package, in my opinion, before the trouble and expense was worth it. Riki MIGHT have produced one or two exceptional offspring (her parents being who they were), but I could not forget she was also carrying "the short gene" as well as the "funky colored head" gene. She could have passed those on, too.


I did not put this much thought into HAVING CHILDREN, checking my husbands heart, hips, eyes and everything in his or his families history!!! DID ANYONE ELSE??
Uh....actually, YES! I carry the fat gene and my husband has a quirky temper (and let's not even go into the history of breast and kidney cancer on my side, or the heart disease and Alzheimer's on his side) -- if this were a Golden breeding pair, we'd be howled off this board for allowing this unsound pair to breed! I don't see why parents DON'T do this! And I'm not alone, either. All of my child-free friends have made the same decision, for various reasons -- all of which involved searching themselves to see if they had what it took to be a parent, or to produce children unburdened with certain physical or psychological issues.

[esterris]

Accamar: great example of genetics and all the more reason not to breed. The idea is for Goldens to look like Goldens, not a whole different breed altogether. I see and meet some Goldens who look like a mix and several who don't even have the desire to retrieve! Those dogs came from dogs that had clearances and references from people who don't know better.

The bottom line is . . . . when we don't have dogs in rescue, which predominantly come from unethical breeders, who don't really know or care where their puppies end up, or Goldens in shelters who are surrendered because their owners can't pay for hip surgery or handle the temperant challenges, we'll revisit the issue.

[Ami]

Breeding on purpose is good if you better the breed with GOOD lines, and not just for "oh, but my girl is so pretty, I just want to breed her one time and keep a pup myself". There is way too many pet quality dogs out there. I am NOT saying that is a bad thing, but it wouldn't hurt getting more working dogs either IMO.

There is way too many dogs out there that needs a new home that is just as good as a breeder pet quality dog, no need to add more of them.