Back Yard Breeders!!

[Chris]

When we opened our store we had a customer that came in and saw Maddie and immediately asked if she was a male? (He doesn't even know enough about the breed to know how different a Male's face is) He said he has a female and wanted to breed her! Not one thought as to where I got her or if they could be related!! :eek: Now we have Murphy and Monday he (The potential future back yard breeder) came into the store and he went on and on about how we could breed our dogs and my reward would be a few of the pups!! :mad: Again not one question about where he was from or anything just that he was a male golden. :mad: He was quite disappointed when I said he was going to be neutered and not used as a stud dog ever. When I said that Murphy's pedigree was limited and none of his off spring could be registered he could care less. Then to top it off yesterday (Tuesday) he came back in with his wife/gf this time, and she started in about how "we" could breed our dogs! I was so mad by time they left.. Sometimes it is hard not to be rude to your customers. I :( did remain professional and am glad I did. I wonder if they will try again today.

[Westin]

That's really sad. I just don't think people understand that they could potentially be hurting the breed by doing this. I had no idea of this before we got Westin, now I'm very adamant about no backyard breeding.

Next time he talks about it maybe you should inform him of the potential problem that backyard breeding may cause. You never know, you might change his mind.

[MyBoyGus]

Just tell him your dogs are neutered. Since he didn't notice if your dog was a boy or girl I doubt he will notice if he is really neutered or not. If he looks, tell him they are prosthetics.

[GoldCountryGirl]

I've had people driving by in trucks or cars and stop me and ask what sex my little dog is. Huh? Well, it always turns out they have the "perrrrfect male/female" to mate with mine because they'll make such "purrrdy babies!" Arrrrghhhh. Gee, this one woman was soooo disappointed when I told her my dog was a FEMALE. (she wanted a male to breed with her female). It's like she didn't believe me! But, aside from that I told her that I wouldn't breed her REGARDLESS! Not only did I sign a spay/neuter CONTRACT, I do not believe in "backyard breeding" and definitely not to create "mixed breeds"! "Oh, but they would be so cuuuute together and the puppies would be darling!!" GRRRRRRRRRRRR! :mad:

Sheesh. Some of these people just don't get it! :rolleyes:

When we opened our store we had a customer that came in and saw Maddie and immediately asked if she was a male? (He doesn't even know enough about the breed to know how different a Male's face is) He said he has a female and wanted to breed her! Not one thought as to where I got her or if they could be related!! :eek: Now we have Murphy and Monday he (The potential future back yard breeder) came into the store and he went on and on about how we could breed our dogs and my reward would be a few of the pups!! :mad: Again not one question about where he was from or anything just that he was a male golden. :mad: He was quite disappointed when I said he was going to be neutered and not used as a stud dog ever. When I said that Murphy's pedigree was limited and none of his off spring could be registered he could care less. Then to top it off yesterday (Tuesday) he came back in with his wife/gf this time, and she started in about how "we" could breed our dogs! I was so mad by time they left.. Sometimes it is hard not to be rude to your customers. I :( did remain professional and am glad I did. I wonder if they will try again today.

[Goldenglittergirl]

I had sort of a similiar incident happen to me last summer. I was walking my Lab, and this woman and her two labs came up to me and she was ranting about how she wanted to breed her Chocolate lab to mine, and how she loved his coloring. :rolleyes: She had NO clue about BYB or anything.

She then hit me up again about the subject a few months later when I saw her again. I then educated her big time about how there are so many labs in shelters waiting to die. She could have cared less.. :mad:

You might want to try and be nice to them and at least try to educate on the evils of BYBs and puppy mills, you never know you may get through to them!

I agree there are SO many idiotic people out there that could care less about breeding and really have no clue. Why do you think our shelters are so full??? :(

[angenbear]

They seem interested in your dog and perhaps trying to convince you by going to the store often. I would suggest printing up some information about what it takes to breed and the effects of backyard breeding to give to them. It sounds like they won't listen to anything you say, so perhaps in writing in may be more clear. I think if they continue to ask, you should put your foot down and say you don't believe in breeding your dog due to the responsibilities and finance it takes to raise puppies and there are enough dogs out there in shelters. Perhaps that will open his eyes?

[suzysues]

The Backyard Breeder's and Puppy Miller's Big Book of Old Excuses (http://www.lakeeffectdogs.com/The_Backyard_Breeder's_and_Puppy_Miller's_Big_Book _of_Old_Excuses.htm)

[Chris]

I must of got through to them since they didn't come in today. :029 I had told them both that he was going to be neutered as soon as possible so he hopefully wont develop any tendencies.

[rem55555]

I just read your post and I felt I had to comment. Having worked in retail for 10 years I know what' it is like when you have to bite your tongue and show patience when dealing with this type of person. But one thing I cannot put up with are ignorant people who want to make a quick buck at the sacrifice of an animal. If I were in the same position, I honestly don't know whether I could have held my temper with this type of "person". I applaud your ability to remain professional and not lose your temper.

[Chris]

Thanks, He has been back 2 times since and not mentioned it so I must of got my message across. :029 The last time that he did mention breeding his female he had said she was real small for a golden. Much smaller than my Maddie who is right in the middle of the normal range for a female. I did manage to get in a few questions about where he got his female. He had said a local breeder and she had papers. I asked him if there may have any inbreeding with her since she is so small. (I used it to get my message accross.) He was not sure about the breeder and "did not know that could cause problems" So I think I got something through without him knowing what I was doing! :021

[Marieppie]

I have a good friend who wants to breed her female Golden/lab mix once before spaying her. You know... give the kids the experience type deal. I do not want to say something in a way that destroys our friendship, but want to send her some info that will make her reconsider. Does anyone have a link to something really informative that is not in-your-face/offensive that could accomplish this?

[Karefl]

I have a good friend who wants to breed her female Golden/lab mix once before spaying her. You know... give the kids the experience type deal. I do not want to say something in a way that destroys our friendship, but want to send her some info that will make her reconsider. Does anyone have a link to something really informative that is not in-your-face/offensive that could accomplish this?

I don't have any links, but what are the ages of her kids? Could she maybe find a reputable breeder that would be willing to let them volunteer with them. That way the kids would have the experience & get an education about breeding from someone who really knows about everything involved from health certs to screening new puppy homes! It might take a little research & calling around to find someone willing to do this, but I think that it would be worth it! Maybe they could even volunteer at a shelter afterwards just to see WHY it's important to not just have puppies to have puppies! Just a thought!

[Marieppie]

Thanks for those ideas!
I googled and found some things I thought would help her make a better decision and emailed the links. She IMed me today saying she didn't read them. That her dog has a tilted uterus and has had two UTI's and the vet has said she should be spayed. Thank goodness. She is now anxious to get it done.

[theGoldenPup]

There is an online virtual breeding site (....I don't remember the link though... anyone?). There may be a video on breeding/puppies on dog information sites, and maybe there is one for people who want to breed for the kids (...may have been a joke, not sure...). If she STILL wants to 'for the kids', definately have her ask about breeders, and maybe talk to rescues/humane societies. In a few months they may be getting many puppies/kittens (and teach the kids about pet overpopulation), and pregnant dogs/cats too. They may be able to foster a cat after the kittens are born.

Glad there is a happy ending there. Whew.

GoldenPup

[diiorio]

That's funny. Becuase whiel I was visitign one of the breeders. A guy came in and looked at the females and siad umm I'll take this one, we plan to breed our male to make puppies.

Well! THe breeder had a fit!!!!! She said. How dare you even coem in here and say that! None of my dogs will be allowed to breed. Anyone buying my og's violates this, I coem after them with the full effect of the law!

Well the guy left red faced. I thought she was goign to beat him up.

We had a client who's husband wanted to breed there male they got at Pet Depot. Well I gave them a long lecture. And after tellign them the costs envolved, the vet bills per puppy for first shot's each. ANd hwo little you will make, if any. She said good, now please tell my husband this!

It does hurt the breed. Yet also hurts the dog's in shelters. Many backyard breeders end up sending them to shelters. If someone breeds a good pair to keep their line going, and is resposible that is good. But a person doign it for kicks or cash needs to stop. It hurts pure breeds in general when shelters over flow.

[LoganBerry]

I bought Logan with no papers. My boss's mother in-law breeds goldens. She has been for the last 20 something years.I wanted one of her dogs so bad, but now she's getting sloppy and breeding crazy dogs together making nutty hard to train puppies. I found Logan from one of the male goldens we groom. He's a georgous male dog, and the owner bred him with his sister's female golden. (dogs not related) The male has papers but not the female. The pups all turned out to be great calm and excellent tempered dogs. I didn't care about bloodlines, i just wanted a good pup.
Now they are going to breed the male and female again since it went so well the first time. They are not official breeders
just back yard breeders i guess. After this second litter, they are going to stop.
any comments on this?

[Chris]

Odd this post has come up top again.. :cool: Just Thursday at the store the guy I had posted about came into the store to tell me his female has gone into heat twice and he wants to breed her the next time she does. I think it was another attempt to get my Murphy involved. Even though he is only 4 1/2 months old what an idiot. :( He was obviously upset when I told him Murphy had already been neutered. In fact it was the day after he was. What timing they had. :003

paw Chris

[CanadianGolden]

Chris, I truly am not saying this to be rude, but how can you attack me for questioning someone (dmc888) who is clearly a BYB when you can berate this guy online? I really don't understand the difference between what I did and what you're doing.

[Chris]

Because this guy has asked me several times dosn't care where my pup came from and just wants to make money off her he said so. That is why.. When he saw Maddie the first time he was hopeing she was a male as well. He has never bred a dog before and is looking for any male at all to mate HIS DOG WITH WITH OR WITHOUT PAPERS...

Plus this is not my first post here is it??? I am not a breeder and never will be. You do not know anything about the other poster other than the question they asked.

[sugarsmom]

Chris:
Since this CREEP keeps coming back to your store :mad: , maybe you could print out some serious literature for him on this topic. He's obviously going to breed with the first GR he gets his grubby hands on. Do you think doing this might help? :204

[Chris]

No it wont help I have talked to him about inbreeding the health problems that can happen. They were even going to buy a male from the mall store if it wasn't for the price tag they had on him. All he sees is $$$ that he is going to make. He is a true future BYB.

[2blondebabes]

I had a funny experience at a soccer game today. It tied in with this breeding thread. Riley is a very nicely bred golden with good coloring, nice head, etc. Her parents both showed and she has a very nice pedigree. There was a gal at the game with a 3 month golden that was cute, but obviously not bred very well. It was very scrawny with a very pointy nose and small head. Now, I am not criticizing her as a pet and I am sure she was a well loved sweet little puppy, but it was the woman who was getting my goat. She kept calling Riley a he because the woman said she looked very "blocky" and that her coloring was odd because Riley is a medium gold and not red like her puppy. I asked where she got it and she said out of the paper and she couldn't remember the name, didn't have any papers, etc. I think she actually thought Riley was the "odd looking" dog. I guess it is because most of the goldens we see daily are the one's that are not bred so well and tend to have the scrawny, leggy, pointy look that you get from pet stores, etc. Another couple came by and also said Riley had a blocky head and didn't look at all like the golden they had. Then he told me their golden had a litter of pups and sold them all to a guy in California who saw his ad! Wow! Who would sell a whole litter to one person without even knowing him. I guess he must not have cared too much about what he did with the pups. Anyway, I decided that if people thought Riley has a blocky head, it must mean she looks like a purebred golden! :laugh2 :laugh2 By the way, I never thought of her having a blocky head, just a nicely shaped head! :roll2

[CanadianGolden]

People are ignorant.

However, little red scrawny Goldens are often field dogs, and 3 month olds may be pretty gangly looking, although it sounds as though this woman's dog was not from a reputable breeder.

[GoldenLady]

I had a funny experience at a soccer game today. It tied in with this breeding thread. Riley is a very nicely bred golden with good coloring, nice head, etc. Her parents both showed and she has a very nice pedigree. There was a gal at the game with a 3 month golden that was cute, but obviously not bred very well. It was very scrawny with a very pointy nose and small head. Now, I am not criticizing her as a pet and I am sure she was a well loved sweet little puppy, but it was the woman who was getting my goat. She kept calling Riley a he because the woman said she looked very "blocky" and that her coloring was odd because Riley is a medium gold and not red like her puppy. I asked where she got it and she said out of the paper and she couldn't remember the name, didn't have any papers, etc. I think she actually thought Riley was the "odd looking" dog. I guess it is because most of the goldens we see daily are the one's that are not bred so well and tend to have the scrawny, leggy, pointy look that you get from pet stores, etc. Another couple came by and also said Riley had a blocky head and didn't look at all like the golden they had. Then he told me their golden had a litter of pups and sold them all to a guy in California who saw his ad! Wow! Who would sell a whole litter to one person without even knowing him. I guess he must not have cared too much about what he did with the pups. Anyway, I decided that if people thought Riley has a blocky head, it must mean she looks like a purebred golden! :laugh2 :laugh2 By the way, I never thought of her having a blocky head, just a nicely shaped head! :roll2

I've had the exact opposite thing happen - people thinking my show male, who at 24 inches and 75 pounds is right at the top of the standard for a male Golden, is a female, because they think he's "small". :rolleyes: It's the same idea, really - people comparing every dog they see of a certain breed to the dog(s) they know best, whether or not said dog is anywhere near how the breed should actually look (or behave, for that matter).

As for getting a dog from the paper, some of the sellers there are, unfortunately, just like the pet stores: they get the puppies from someone else, a whole litter at a time, and sell them off at a higher price. I've heard of some of these brokers even saying things like "we don't have any puppies at the moment, but we're getting another shipment in a couple of weeks". :mad: I suspect that's what the man in California likely did with the puppies. :(

How old is Riley? She does look like she has a nice head.

GoldenLady :)

[GoldCountryGirl]

I see the same ad in the classifieds week after week. " Golden ret. puppies AKC OB trained $450". And sometimes I see ads that are selling more than one breed. Or both Goldens and Labs. The same ads all the time. Sigh. I should call one of these days and get the scoop. I know that well-bred Goldens from reputable breeders would be $1,200--1,500 in my area. Not $450 out of a newspaper ad. :(


I've had the exact opposite thing happen - people thinking my show male, who at 24 inches and 75 pounds is right at the top of the standard for a male Golden, is a female, because they think he's "small". :rolleyes: It's the same idea, really - people comparing every dog they see of a certain breed to the dog(s) they know best, whether or not said dog is anywhere near how the breed should actually look (or behave, for that matter).

As for getting a dog from the paper, some of the sellers there are, unfortunately, just like the pet stores: they get the puppies from someone else, a whole litter at a time, and sell them off at a higher price. I've heard of some of these brokers even saying things like "we don't have any puppies at the moment, but we're getting another shipment in a couple of weeks". :mad: I suspect that's what the man in California likely did with the puppies. :(

How old is Riley? She does look like she has a nice head.

GoldenLady :)

[2blondebabes]

Riley is 6 months. I don't think she was a field golden. Although I am not an expert, I have seen many beautiful field goldens and I know they are not as stocky as the showing type golden and tend to be more red in color. I am not sure if this was even a purebred because her tail had a bit of a curl, her ears were pretty short and she had a white chest. She was very sweet, it was just this lady that kept going on about her breeder and it being purebred and Riley was so different looking, blah blah blah! When I started asking specific questions about her pedigree, etc, she didn't know a thing. I was just irritated with the lady but the dog was very nice! Just a few short months ago before I learned a few things, I was probably just as ignorant as she was about the breed! ;)

[CaynCher]

Some people think that Cayenne is a female as he is around 72lbs, with a nice blocky head, & doesn't have those extra long legs which many of the Goldens in our area have from neutering too early. We have many really large obese dogs here from lack of exercise & too much food. I also see many BYB ads in the paper (same ones week after week) & also many designer dogs like GoldenDoodles which are $1,000 plus. It's hard to believe that people are buying mixed/crossed breeds at those prices when they could get one from Rescue at a lot less. dog9

[Gryffyndor]

I can relate to where many of you are coming from. Most think Gryffyn is part yellow lab because he is lighter in color and he can't be "purebred" because he is so small - he is 11 months and is almost at the minimum 65 lb for males. But he will fill out as this line tends to mature later...and live longer. I see so much of the BYB here as well, and there is nothing you can say to dissuade them from their actions. It is so sad... and contributing to the incorrect public image on how a golden should appear, not to mention health issues. It has been well said in this forum many times, and it is great that so many here are well educated and can pass that knowledge on to others.

[2blondebabes]

I guess my whole point of posting was to say that people are familiar with a particular breed only by what they are exposed to. I will say that before I started searching for her breeder and reading books, etc. I thought the normal look for a golden was way different then what I discovered. Most of the pets we see around are probably either from the pound, BYB or the pet stores. In fact, the GR I fell in love with that I babysit and caused me to want my own, is a dog bought from a large well known kennel in our area that is always being protested by dog groups for mistreatment, etc. She is a sweetie though and she is why I looked for Riley. They look totally different and I assumed that any GR we found would look like her! These dogs still make wonderful pets. I think well bred dogs are probably the minority - at least in my little world! :eek:

[kinseysmom]

Read this thread and wondered if that large breeder you are speaking of is (it starts with a "T")??? If that's it, you have no idea how upset I get because my son's inlaws get their dogs there. Oh, I tell them not to but they just don't get it. They're the kind of people you run in to who think a large store with 100 dogs is fabulous....you get to pick the best dog!! :rolleyes:

This thread also reminded me of the neighbor up the street who thinks "we got taken" because Kinsey just doesn't look like a Golden Retriever!! Kinsey is way too light coated so can't possibly be a purebred etc. I couldn't believe it when she said, "well, you guys got taken!" I wanted to smack her. But I was nice. Actually, I haven't talked with her since and I tell both Finny and Kinsey to "get" her little ankle biter!! :laugh2 :laugh2 :laugh2

[CanadianGolden]

I wonder if she'd still think you got taken after seeing almost any Canadian-bred Golden...my puppy's sire (recently deceased, RIP Crush :( ) was one of the top obedience dogs in the country and the #1 All Breed AKC Agility Dog several years back...yeah, guess he couldn't possibly be purebred because he's light!

[GoldenLady]

I wonder if she'd still think you got taken after seeing almost any Canadian-bred Golden...my puppy's sire (recently deceased, RIP Crush :( ) was one of the top obedience dogs in the country and the #1 All Breed AKC Agility Dog several years back...yeah, guess he couldn't possibly be purebred because he's light!

Aww.... I'm really sorry to hear that Crush died... :( I loved that dog. I remember seeing him for the first time when he was working towards his CDX, and I was very impressed with him from that moment on. :)

Here in Canada, we actually have a real mix of lines - lots of dogs that go back to English/Scandinavian lines, as well as many from American lines, including dogs that are descended from dark red Goldens. We see the full range in colour here, at least in Southern Ontario. We're also seeing a number of breeders mixing the two types of lines, with interesting - and often very nice! - results.

GoldenLady :)

[CanadianGolden]

I assume we mean the same Crush--Marcia's dog, right? I was so upset--I had really wanted to meet him. I've heard from everyone that he was truly amazing in person. My little girl is the spitting image of him, too. What a great line.

[GoldenLady]

I assume we mean the same Crush--Marcia's dog, right? I was so upset--I had really wanted to meet him. I've heard from everyone that he was truly amazing in person. My little girl is the spitting image of him, too. What a great line.

Yes, we're both talking about the same Crush! I remember we had talked about your girl way back when (when this was an ezboard forum) - didn't remember that her sire was Crush, but I know the breeder you got her from. As for Crush, he really was an amazing dog to see "in dog"... I loved him at first sight, so much so that I had go go up to Marcia and talk to her about him after they were done in the ring. :) Doug's dogs are something else, all right; I'm really impressed with the health and longevity of his dogs, as well as their working ability, of course. Nice to hear your girl has turned out so well.

GoldenLady :)

[2blondebabes]

Yes Kinseysmom it does start with a T! I figured you would know which one I was talking about! You will be glad to know that Riley was being a real puppy today! VERY NAUGHTY! I showed her how to get in and out of the car today too so I will start working with her on that! She jumped out when I put her paws on the step from the car! :029