raw food ...need advice

[KATERINA & TSOUFI]

For tha last months i have been reading alot about dry food and after Keagan beeing ill i am thinking of changing both my boys diet. Unfortunatelly in Europe, dog food is worst than the states. Even Nutro, which i have been giving my boys is not the same with American Nutro. Ingredients are completelly different, not so many vitamins etch.
I need to know what exactly is a raw food diet. Chicken, rice and vegetables??? Anything else i need to add???

Thanks...Furry hugs from Greece

Katerina & Tsoufi & Keagan

[Sandra]

Hi Katherina,

Great that you're interested in raw feeding!

A Natural Raw Food diet or Biologically Appropriate Rawfood Diet, call it a name. The natural way of feeding, containing natural enzymes and bacteria as the way a dog (carnivore) should be fed. These enzymes and bacteria are the defenders of the immune system and the 'transporters' of the blood which feeds the organs with good stuff to let them work like it suppost to be working. In kibble you'll never find those types of enzymes and bacteria, which makes a dog very vulnerable for attacts of virusses and other outside disease makers. Kibble itself is in my opinion a very bad choice of feeding, which causes more unnecessary illnesses then needed.
A dog is a meat eater, has a short intestinal tract and is fully able to digest a carnivore diet. The benefits of such a diet are priceless. I see it with my own dogs after 2 years of full raw feeding.

What contains a raw meat diet? Very different kinds of meat/bones/organs like chicken, lamb, goat, rabbit, duck, quail, guinea fowl, calf, fat fish etc. At least 4 kinds of different types. Muscle meat (60-70%), bones (10/20%), organ (5-10%).
Then the different adds like vegetables (total 10% of our diet), cottage cheese, eggs, fruit and some herbs like nettle and seaweed (total 5% of our diet).

For starting chicken is the best option, because it has very soft bone structure and it is easy to digest. The bone does not splinter, only in a cooked state and that is not the way giving bones. If you really want to go for it, try to find some chicken necks or chicken chops. You could add some vegetables like cooked brocolli or give a bit of vegetable mix (raw and grinded). In your dog's case I would advise try to start 'cold turkey' to raw food diet and just get started.

Animals (dogs/cats other carnivores) with bad kidneys and an urea value twice as high as normal are advised to give more animal fats for reducing the protein level. Then the diet contains more animal fat and less muscle meat and organ, like RMB's of goat and lamb, chicken with skin, fat seafish etc.

Also it is very important to give phosphate binders to protect the kidneys. A phosphorus reducing product contains calcium carbonate (chalk) and that reduces the phosphorus. Also such a product contains chitine and that catches the urea and makes the dog less ill.

The red underlined quote is not from myself. It's from a holistic doctor which is on our forum. She's very educated and knows a lot of kidney problems in cats and dogs.

I hope this will help you.

If you have any questions at all. I am always willing to help you.

You could download the free e-book of Tom Lonsdale's Work Wonders.
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/

Greets,
Sandra, Stanley & Whooper

[kpeasland]

My 2 year old golden Barney has been fed BARF since he was 9 weeks old. He actually was having a reaction to Innova, a natural kibbel and the vet suggested BARF. He's loved it since and has the most beautiful coat - soft and flowing! He has never had a hot spot and his coat is very thick. It is an expensive diet for a large dog, but well worth it. I'm a firm believer.

We actually fed the diet to my 13 year old Shih Tzu and he even developed a most beautiful coat and acted like he was only 5 years old!

Good luck with whatever you decide. I just tried to attach a picture of Barney, but it's too big. :dogbark

Kerry banana

[Daniela (UK)]

Hi Katerina,

great news you decided to give your boys the best they can have .. raw!

You'll have so much fun feeding it and they'll have so much fun eating it!

I really enjoyed the book Sandra suggested.. Lonsdale explains everything really well and doesn't make it sound so daunting.. I was a little scared that I won't get it right but after reading that book and talking to people here (mainly Sandra!) I realized it's not all that difficult.

have fun
Daniela

[Sandra]

Katerina, did you get the last PB with the Internet links I suggested to read? I noticed all our PB's are gone. Before I send you a new one, I really prefer to email you in stead of PB, because the information I now have for you is of too much value to just throw away.

Greets,
Sandra, Stanley & Whooper

[KATERINA & TSOUFI]

Hi Sandra,

I did get your PB but read half of it. Something happened with my boyfriends computer and everything turned black. I lost all your PB and dont know how to retrieve it. We assume that his comp is under a really nasty worm . I will send you a PB with my e-mail address at work, (which is totally secured) so we can communicate through e- mails.
Keagan had his blood exams just this morning, results will come out tomorrow morning so i will immediatelly tell you. He has been eating well for the last weeks because i added yogourt every night with his kibbles. He loves it, so does Tsoufi. I just received the book i ordered today. I dont know if i can find all this raw meet in Greece. i will read it tonight and see what i can do. It sounds logic to me but are you absolutelly shure that all this raw meet is ok for our babies???? For instance with chicken in Greece you may get salmonella if eating it raw, (i dont know the english word for salmonella )
Any way, i will send you my e-mail address now and wait for your e-mails...

Furry Hugs from Greece..

Katerina & Tsoufi & Keagan

[Sandra]

Hi Katherina, do not be afraid of dogs having Salmonella out of a healthy raw food diet. Trust me, no dogs are known that were killed because of a Salmonella infection out of raw food diet. I've got some 'big' news for you!
I got help from a very experienced raw feeder which knows a lot of breeding, healthy food, holistic things etc. She owns her own raw feeder board and is a very big help for everyone.
She made a feeding schedule especially for your sick dog, which also could be used for Archie if the owner wants to.
Her recommandation (and that from other owners which have dogs with severe kidney problems) is, get the dogs of the kibble and start with the raw feeding programm.
I got respond from a few dog owners of which the dogs had good testing results after starting the raw food diet! Not only the kidneys were in better state, the whole metabolism of the dog increased in a very positive way.
Within a month I'll receive another test result from an owner of a dog which has LS too.
For now, I am translating the schedule and a other information into English language and I'll email you tomorrow and add a Word-document to the email.

Look forward for the results of Keagan. Fingers crossed here!

Hugs for you all.
Sandra, Stanley & Whooper

[Jo Ellen]

Katerina, salmonella exists here in the states too. I've been feeding Daisy raw chicken and other raw meats for over two years now and no Salmonella yet, for either of us. It's very difficult for dogs to develop Salmonella poisoning because their digestive tracts are so short ... there is not enough space or time for the Salmonella to take hold. Salmonella is more of a concern for humans and we should follow the same basic hygenic practices when handling raw meat for our dogs as we would when preparing dinner for our human family. I assume you've been feeding your family chicken for awhile now ... no salmonella?

:003

[KATERINA & TSOUFI]

Dear Sandra,

I will wait for this diet...I am excited... !!!
Test results came out just a few minutes ago...Thank God...Kidneys and liver are ok...but...leismaniosis title still 1/1600. I am dissapointed with that. At least i thought that his title would be reduced even a bit.
Vet told me that it takes months to drop the title...and i should be pationed.
Anyway, Keagan starts second round of Glucantime, on Monday...!!!
I am starting to feel a bit frustrated with this disease...Why??? The worst part is that we heard that there is a Greek guy who lives in France and has the leismaniosis shot...He wont give it because the money he has been offered by medical companies are not enough...Can you believe this??? Our babies are getting sick and he is talking about more money... Phewww... Thats is why i am frustrated...
Anyway... Jo Ellen thanks for your advice...Usually us humans we boil the chicken to the maximum to avoid salmonella but i trust you guys so i will start giving them everything raw...

Furry Hugs from Greece...

Katerina & Tsoufi & Keagan

[Sandra]

Hi Katherina,

Wow, that's great news about the kidneys and liver!!
I would not worry as much of the title though. If you start with the raw food and the TF, things must get better. That's what I red out of several stories though. Let's hope!

And Jo Ellen has well said about the Salmonella.
Do not worry about that!

I'll ask around about that new LM shot. That's very interesting. I have send you an email with the feeding schedule for Keagan. This is based on a dog with severe kidney disease.

Hope you all have a nice weekend with a little bit of rest now.

Greets, :003
Sandra, Stanley & Whooper

[kpeasland]

Barney has been on this Barf diet since he was 9 weeks old and he's never had a problem with it! : :dogbark I have also added yogurt (plain, natural yogurt) and sometimes even chopped up broccoli, carrots and added cottage cheese. rofl :085 Both my dogs love the diet and their coats show it. Even with my golden going through this rough time with myositis, his appetite has never waivered - he wants his barf patty! I've only seen good come from this diet.

Kerry, Barney and Mr. Rusty! :woofpup

[Sandra]

Vet told me that it takes months to drop the title...and i should be pationed.

Anyway, Keagan starts second round of Glucantime, on Monday...!!!

I am starting to feel a bit frustrated with this disease...Why??? The worst part is that we heard that there is a Greek guy who lives in France and has the leismaniosis shot...He wont give it because the money he has been offered by medical companies are not enough...


Katherina, in this state you must not 'concern' the LM title as much as you do now. That's easy to say, but I got this advise. If you put the dog on a proper diet then the resistance must increase, that's what you need to fight the illness makers. LM will never be gone in your Keagan. It always excists in him his whole life and has to be controlled by medical treatments. The person I am getting advised from has only once done a titer test in the beginning.
Now her dog is on the raw meat diet and she noticed the dog feels comfortable and is playing with her other dogs again. This he has not done for a long time. She says he has got more resistance due to the raw meat diet. A good diet reduces the pressure on the organs and is a big help for his general state. I believe her in this, because I made a simular went through with Stanley.
But, even if the titers were positively increased with let's say 800/1600, that will not say your dog is going to be better. At this point the illness makers can for sure make your dog very sick again. So, the titers itself do not say much.
This person gets the results of the kidney test this week. That's the second one after the test when he was on kibble.
I will keep you posted.

I hope Keagan is feeling allright when he's got his shot again. Thankfully his organs are in good state now.

About that French men: if that LM shot is so precious as he claims, the medical companies sure will pay for that.
This disease is a danger for humans too. Researchers will pay for that. Veterinary treatment are close to human treatments and veterinary doctors will not make exeptions for that. Such kind of stories are giving false hope for fustrating owners is my opinion. Be careful with that.

Good luck today. Fingers crossed here.

[Daniela (UK)]

Hi Katerina,

I'm glad that Keagans test came back with such encouraging results..
As Sandra says, with raw diet things should only get better!

I started Molly on TF and now I will try to take her of the antibiotics... from tomorrow.. so we will see ...

[elvira]

Hi Katherina,

What a relief the tests for liver and kidney have good results. I feed my dogs raw meaty bones and I think this is really very good for dogs. I changed in first place because he had diarree, went back to kibble during the holidays (camping and raw meat isn't a good combination). When a tumor was found on his leg, I changed back to raw and he never got kibble again. Perhaps you can give some natural honey to Keagan for his imuum system (with Yoghurt, I ate this in Greece).

I hope he will feel better soon.

[KATERINA & TSOUFI]

Sandra, i know that the title may never go away...but i hope. I have heard of dogs with LM that came out negative after treatment...I will start Keagan and Tsoufi with BARF. But i cant start now, i have to do it after summer vacations. My boyfriend is taking me for a 10 day break , i really needed that. He is paying for everything...i am completely broke this summer. Keagan will stay with Alexia and i cant ask her to feed him differently from her other dogs. She has a lot in her mind at the moment with Archie ill and all the lawyers stuff with Collins death. So it will have to wait till we come back.
I will keep you posted anyway....Kisses...

Daniella, how is everything with the house? Have you cleared everything with the last owner. I was thinking of you these days. How is our litle girl Molly??? Please, keep in touch..

Elvira, thanks. Have you been to Greece??? Honey has alot of sugar and i dont know if its ok for our babies..Its sure is fatening for us!!! LoL...

Furry Hugs from Greece

Katerina & Tsoufi & Keagan

[elvira]

I have been several times to Greece, to Parga, Evia (twices), Chios, Nea Makri, Lesbos, Corfu. And I loved it everytime. I give sometimes a little bit honey to my dogs. Juliette de Bairacli Levy writes a lot about honey for dogs. Here an article about Juliette : http://www.barfplaats.nl/yabbse/index.php?board=11;action=display;threadid=23855

She has lived in Greece acoording to the article.

[Daniela (UK)]

Hi Katerina,

thanks for asking about the house.. we finally moved and all is going great!
Well .. apart from the fact that we still didn't complete (paid for the house) coz the owner is still missing an approval on a conversion on the house from the local council!
uuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhh.. so we are currently paying rent on what is ours!
Hopefully it should be sorted soon though..

Molly is doing fine. She's now been off the antibiotics for a week and she is ok.. touch wood! She is on heeps of supplements instead (flax oil, fish oil, bee pollen and a homeopathic medicine to boost her immune system) and she is also on the Transfer Factor. I don't want to jinx it but so far she is doing well. She has more phlegm in her throat than when she was on the antibiotics but she is coping which is main the main thing.

I think her appetite is also back .. she actually eaten yesterday's 2 meals and today's first meal without me forcing her into it. She came to her bowl and ate the food! This hasn't happened since she's been on the antibiotics!! I'm so thrilled she is eating .. I can't even begin to describe how much! There is nothing worse than a dog which doesn't eat.. it's so upsetting coz you know the poor thing is not feeling well enough to eat ...
So .. please keep all your fingers crossed for us .. that we continue at least the way we are if not better!

How are your boys? Any news to report?

Daniela

[KATERINA & TSOUFI]

Hi guys...missed you all soooo much...
Johnwa...i know you had to do all this computer stuff but...please next time do it faster...LOL...

Daniella, i am so happy to hear that Molly is finally eating. I know exactly how you feel...Keagan is eating double the quantity he used to...and he is fat again...Molly will be soon, dont worry. And i am glad everything went well with the house. Are you going on vacations???
We are leaving Thursday morning...Greek islands...Folegandros and Sifnos...cant wait...sun, sea and good food...2 weeks...Thank God my boyfriend is paying for everything!!!!!!!
Keagan will stay with his breeder and my friend Alexia, because he has to do his injections...Tsoufi and Fayette wii go at a friends kennel and have their vacations as well. he has a dog swimming pool and Tsoufi swims every day...He loves the place..
Elvira, i have been to all these places.My family had beach house in Corfu for years. I have spent most of my hollidays in Corfu...Perfect island.. re you planing to come back to Greece??? I read the article and i will try a bit of honey...
Sandra, were have you been??? I have missed you...

Furry Hugs to all of you from Greece...

Katerina & Tsoufi & Keagan

[Daniela (UK)]

hey.. no vacations for me this year... the house and Molly made a big hole in my wallet and money just seem to disappear from it!!! As if by magic!! :D
I don't mind though .. it'll be worth it in the end.

Plus we seem to be having a very hot summer .. in mid thirties this week!!! so I'll just take an odd afternoon off from work when I can and will spend it with Molly

We live really close to The Thames (about 2 mins walk) so we always go swimming there.. well Molly does .. it's too muddy and smelly for humans (well for sober ones anyway.. I saw a few slightly drunk people there last weekend!!!)

Will miss you when you go on holiday.. have a great time though! You desererve a break after what you've been through with Keagan .. and I'm sure he will be in very good hands with your friend.

[elvira]

Hi katherina, No holidays in Greece for me. My father has to look after the dogs and a 6 months old puppy is a bit too much. But we have very high temperatures here for the last few weeks. I have been one week on holiday in belgium with friends (total 10 dogs, 8 people), it was too warm for long walks, but perfect for a drink outside. The dogs could swim in the river, so they were happy too.
I'm glad Keagan is eating good now and I hope he will be fine. I'll see his breeder next month at the Belgium show, see can see Nelson, who has been fed, raw meaty bones from 5 weeks old. Enjoy your holliday !

Daniela, I'm glad Molly is eating better and she's feeling better. I know how worried you can be about your beloved golden. As a youngster Zingaro had very often diarree. He only weighted 35 KG, now he weight 44 KG. After I switched him to a raw diet I could let him gain weight.

[KATERINA & TSOUFI]

Thanks Elvira..

Dont forget to talk to Alexia and tell her that we chat and that you know about Keagan. He is her favorite... Please try to tell her about the raw meat diet...I have been trying to persuade her about the BARF diet and she is a bit hesitant about it.
Its so funny that you will meet my best friend...Such a small world. I was thinking coming to Belgium with Alexia but no money this year. Next time we will come...maybe i will bring Keagan for showing. Plus my Saint Bernard's breeder lives in Belgium and i would like to meet her in person. Bernegardens...Do you know her??? Her name is Britt.
Anyway....Good luck for Nelson...
I will catch up with all of you when we come back early August...
I will miss you all...

Furry Summer Hugs from Greece...

Katerina & Tsoufi & Keagan

[Sandra]

Katerina, how are Tsoufi and Keagan doing??
Just curious. Hope they have improved a bit.