NEED HELP AND ADVICE FROM EXPERTS PLEASE!

[KCGoldens]

I am so upset. I took Thunder into the vet this morning. He comes from an excellent breeding program, all clearances and he was recommended to me by TWO of the TOP vets in the city.
I was originally told by one of the junior vets in our practice that he had dry skin that is why he has been so itchy and scratchy.
Hes at the vets at least once a month for shots and to be checked. Today I made sure he was with the senior vet, he is great, and I decided no one else would go near Thunder, because I was not getting results on the itchyness.
Our senior vet handled him today and said he was magnificent! I told him I was becoming more concerned out Thunder being itchy. He started checking him over really good. Then he told me there was a problem!!!
Thunder has Sarcoptic Mange!!! There was a second visiting vet in the office that is outstanding. Both vets started checking him and taking scrapings. I needed to leave him at the vets for the day so the could find the mite. They wanted evidence to take to the vet who arranged for us to get Thunder and to the breeders. I won't have a complete plan of action until this after noon. I know Cayenne has to go in to be checked and both dogs have to take medicine. My goldens are house dogs kept in a very clean enviroment! I also know I will have to spray and disinfect my carpets!>:
The vet told me it is not as nearly bad as it sounds, its Scarcptic Mange, its not like regular mange. (My husband is really mad! He said he has had all sorts of dogs in his live but NEVER has one had this! I am so upset, this is horrible. What does anyone know about this. Will my goldens be ok? Any advice or info about this problem will be appreciated.
:054 :054 :054

[samndig]

Hey there KC. I don't have any personal experience with Sarcoptic mange but I wanted to give you my support. Here is a link that I found on another web site.
www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1589&articleid=764 (http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1589&articleid=764)

Good luck with your dogs. I am sure that they will get better quickly.

Samantha

[timberwolfe13ca]

I just posted in the previous link about how a dog in Clancy's daycare was diagnosed with Mange Mites. We were told to go to our vets and get Revolution, even if we don't see symptoms. I read the link from Samndig, and it mentioned revolution.


Recently, a new product containing selamectin (Revolution) was released on the market. This product is a topical solution that is applied once a month and provides heartworm prevention, flea control, some tick protection and protection against Sarcoptic mange. I expect this product will be widely used in areas where Sarcoptic mange is a problem.


In fact we were advised to use this product instead of Sentinal, which we normally used. I got the impression that it wasn't a big deal anymore, if treated.

[KCGoldens]

Thanks for the support! It sounds so scary and like something dirty. My dogs are super clean, and so is my house! When I called the trainer to pull Thunder from class he told me it is usually passed from mothers to their puppies and starts showing up when dogs are under stress.:204 :204 :204
Very unhappy about this, I guess I will know more when I pick up Thunder this evening.:(

[WyattSydneys Mom]

Hi KC! So sorry to hear about Thunder, but the good news is that you know what it is, and how to treat it. I know what you mean about feeling "dirty", or that it was your fault. It's not so don't feel that way! I felt the exact same way when Wyatt had whipworms. Sounds like you are doing everything you need to do to get rid of it. I was SO scared there was something more serious wrong with Thunder when I read your first post .. I kind of had a sigh of relief when you said it was just Sarcoptic mange. ;)

I am going to send you a message in you EZinBox. Wanted to ask you a question about your vet.

Good luck and please keep the updates coming. :032

[Goldenheart]

<span style="font-family:georgia; color:maroon;">KCGoldens, I have no experience in this type of problem but I know their are some very experienced people on this board that will come in and help you.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif" />

I did just want to say it has nothing to do with you, or your home being dirty<img border=0 src="http://www.topgoldenretrieversites.net/smiles/021.gif" /> If you own a pet, these things happen.

Kinda like Flea's.....those darn little jumpers. Don't feel so heartbroken, it is just one of those things and you are being a good Mommy and dealing with it and taking care of your little golden baby.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif" /> Once treated, your golden will be just fine.<img border=0 src="http://www.topgoldenretrieversites.net/smiles/003.gif" /></span>

[KCGoldens]

Now I am really confused. They couldn't find any trace of a mite, but they said Thunder had all the symptoms so they gave me Revolution (its stinky). I put a tube on each dog, they weren't to happy. Sprayed all the carpet and I guess I will just have to wait and see.

Timberwolfe~I am glad you said something about Revolution. At least I know my goldens will be well protected against almost anything now. :lol

I also made sure and got some Betagen spray and some dry skin supplements with flaxseed.

Poor Thunder, I put some Betagen spray on his elbow and he stopped itching at it. :204 :204

I am not conviced what is wrong with Thunder yet, but somehow I will get it figured out and fixed for him! :D

[samndig]

KC,
Last year, one of my dogs started losing his hair and showed classic symptoms of demodex mange(the immunosuppression kind) The vets didn't ever get a positive skin scraping:\ but they were pretty sure that's what it was. Sometimes diagnosing problems is really hard. I just wish that our animals could talk and tell us what's going on.:D .

I might try the revolution this year. It sounds like good stuff.
Samantha

[Swampcollie]

Are you sure they said Sarcoptic? This one is usually more severe with significant itchiness and hair loss. (Yes it's very contagious.) The symptoms are not usually subtle with this one.

Demodectic Mange (Red Mange, or Puppy Mange) This one is related to a weak immune system. Demodex mites are present on all dogs, part of the normal flora and fauna of our canine friends. Normally the dog's immune system keeps them in check, so there are no problems. If the dogs immune system get's depressed for some reason the mites can get out of control. This form of mange can be localized or general (all over). This immune system weakness can be genetic in nature, or brought on by the stress of a related illness, or hormonal changes. If it's generalized (all over), I would tend to lean toward something not right with the immune system(genetic), If it's localized small spot, it could be related to another condition, or hormonal changes.

Another condition with similar symptoms is ringworm (a fungus), It can be seen under special lighting.

How large are the lesions on the dog?

[KCGoldens]

Swampcollie~I am so glad you showed up.
They said they "thought" it was sarcoptic mange NOT the type a dog gets when its immune system isn't working.
They kept him and did skin scrapings but did not find any mites. (They said it is very rare to find a mite to see under a microscope in an infected dog?):204
He has a raw spot on his left front elbow from scratching. He is starting to get a small one on his right front elbow from scratching. When the vet handled his ear, his leg moved like a tickle spot. He has a tickle spot on his chest and the vet said that could be due to the scarcoptic mite? (I have my doubts about this)
He has been scratching his left front shoulder off and on since we got him. There is no sign of a lesion there. His skin and fur do seem a bit dry, but not flaky?
I sprayed his elbows with betagen and they stopped itching. We put the Revolution on him and hes sleeping like a rock.
I have been watching our older golden. She never scratchs.
:204 :204 :204

[Swampcollie]

It just doesn't sound like mange. The hairloss is not usually caused by the scratching, it's caused by the mites.

Take a look at the Net Vet site, they used to have good online pictures and symptom descriptions of both types of mange.

Did they look at the pup with the UV light to check for ringworm?

[KCGoldens]

They said they checked him with the UV lights. He dosn't seem like he has the symptoms of either type of mange?
He is losing a little hair on his elbow and its scabbed up from the scratching. Its a spot the size of a nickle.

All I know is he is VERY itchy tonight.

His coat is really nice, his belly and ears are nice, its just his elbows and he is itchy and his coat seems dry.

[CanadianGolden423]

Could it be allergies? Delta is from a top class breeder with fantastic dogs and she has allergies. She scratches a lot, despite very high quality food. We can't totally control her diet because of our lifestyle- she can go outside and eat things like horse manure and grain that she's allergic to.

Samra

[KCGoldens]

Samra~
I am starting to wonder if it might be allergies. I spend a huge amount of time training and playing with Thunder and I don't itch and neither does Cayenne. I am going to ask about switching foods tomorrow.
I will keep giving him the Revolution, it sure can't hurt this time of year, but I am going to keep researching this itching problem.
I just want to stop him from itching and get his elbow healed up.

[messano]

We had a bitch many years ago that had Demodectic Mange.
The Vet's first diagnosis was an allergy to the carpet, however we did not think that this could be the cause due to the severity of the problem.

The second vet immediately diagnosed Demodetic mange from the symptoms, in Daisy's case these were as follows:
Extreme black pigmentation of the skin under the belly and arm-pits, red puscules on the undersides, a 'mousy' smell and extreme itching.
She was treated with special washes that were almost as bad as the disease (this was 15 years ago)and at times she was so bad and miserable that we considered having her put to sleep.
Luckily she pulled through and recovered. We had her spayed because the predisposition to the condition is thought to be partly hereditary and this seemed to solve her problem completely. I know that it is more common in bitches than dogs, perhaps hormones also play a part?
Unless your dog is exhibiting any of the above classical symptoms, I also agree that it is more probably an allergy.
One of the most common allergies suffered by dogs is overheating due to being fed grain in their food, it may be worth trying a food that does not use maize, wheat or oats.
I do not know which foods are available in your area, but there are many companies that manufacture this type of food.

messano

[KCGoldens]

Thunder actually slept until 8am this morning. He usually wakes up scratching and whining at 5am!
His elbow looks much better. Not all red.
He has been eating Cayennes food since yesteday. There are not alot of grains and such in her food.
He is still scratching but not nearly as much.
Not sure what it is that is working, the choices are:
The Revolution worked fast.
Different food.
The Betegen really helped his elbows.
Maybe it is all of them? :204
I guess I will just keep with what I am doing and wait.
The straight change to Cayennes food dosn't seem to faze him, everything is still solid.

[Goldenheart]

<span style="font-family:georgia; color:green;">Looks like things are getting better now for you, glad to hear it.
I don't believe its the food helping KCGoldens, you wouldn't notice that big of a difference over night.

If this in infact a allergy of some type, keep in mind it does not have to be food related. Their are also airborn allergies that these guys have some problems with. Not always the easiest to figure out either. Is your golden treated for flea's? I ask because a lot of these goldens tend to be allergic to the saliva of a flea bite and will scratch for a month after one bite.

I'm with Swampcollie, it doesn't sound like a mange type thing from what I have read about it. Whatever this is, I hope you can find it quickly.</span>

[Herbette]

Last summer Flash had gotten a mosquito bite on his right elbow, of all places, and of course he scratched it good, and because he scratched it, it took longer to heal. IN the process, he lost some hair so had a bald elbow. I'm thankful that with some neosporin and watching him to prevent him from scratching and licking it, it did heal up several weeks later, the hair all grew back, and you would never know this happened.

[KCGoldens]

I am glad to hear that about Flashes elbow. At least I know Thunders elbow will get hair again! I hope!
He is SO much better! He has not scratched himself once today! In fact this is the first day since we first got him that I have not seen him itching! He is so much calmer. Not all hyper and antsy like he used to be.
Poor baby!