What your opinion on NO eye and heart clearances?

[Dianna]

Tonight I called on a some puppies I seen, yes their in the paper. I was told by this breeder that he has been breeding for 13 years and never had a problem with this. He is offering the hip clearances. He said he had the pedigree's on them and they went back 4 according to the phone call.

I asked for references and he said he could get me a few, one was a good friend he said though with the golden being 2 1/2 years. He was very up front and honest with me about that one.

OSA is mentioned, not quite sure what that stands for though. Oh, he also said he is Vet recommended by a vet about 1/2 hour from me.

Can I check these pedigree's out on the net if he will let me have them before I put down a cent?

Now, should I feel safe....or run.

We just don't have these eye and heart clearances up here where I am. Oh, their 450.00. I just don't know what too do.

[Swampcollie]

Eye and heart exams aren't that expensive. In this area the eye exam is $28, and the heart exam is $75. The fact that the breeder didn't feel it necessary to check his animals ahead of time makes me a bit cautious about this litter.

I would take the information about the pups pedigree and check it on k9data.com . If you can find the pups ancestors you may also be able to check for their health clearances. If you can find the necessary health clearances on the ancestors, generation after generation, you may be O.K. in considering a pup.

[Dianna]

Now, if he will be willing to supply me with this information on the pedigree so I can check it out. I guess if he doesn't that is reason enough for me to say "No Thanks".

I also emailed someone for help off the AKC web site this evening, may be a lead their as well that I will feel a little more comfortable with....up here right now it is like the labs were years back....puppies all over the place. So far 4 ads since Christmas. This man I talked with tonight had a litter of 9 males and 1 female alone. It isn't good in my opinion for these guys right now, sad:(

[Swampcollie]

If he can't or won't give you the names of the Sire, Dam and the Grandparents, you don't want to be dealing with this individual. :rolleyes

[Chocobos05]

Hi! We have just started puppy hunting, so I have heard some of the same things from breeders in our area. My opinion on him being vet recommended: I would ask your vet to talk to his vet and then get your vets recommendation. Have a heart to heart talk with your vet about your concerns about the heart and eye issues, and then ask you vet if they could contact the dog breeders vet. I trust my vet 100%. Also, what sort of health guarentee does this breeder offer. Most of the ones I have talked to here offer 24+ months on the puppy being healthy and free from any genetic defects.

If the breeder does not want your vet to contact his vet, or will not offer some sort of guarentee on his puppies I would run away really fast!

Good Luck! I hope both of us find our perfect puppys soon!
Tammi

[Daisy and Me]

I don't understand why someone wouldn't offer you the pedigree info. If they are papered dogs, you will get it anyways. Anyone who looks at Daisy's pups will be free to any info they want regarding her and her ancestry.

[CanadianGolden423]

get a puppy from these people. Other necessary clearances are elbows, thyroid, and heart and eye are vital. You don't want a puppy that falls over dead at 6 months from a heart attack, do you? Or one that goes blind at 4 from cataracts? I've experienced my share of backyard breeders, and my performance dog is on and off lame right now, possibly from elbow dysplasia. Take your time and find a reputable breeder with show dogs and all clearances. By the way, OFA is Orthopedic Foundation for Animals- they do certifications on hips, elbows, hearts, and thyroids. The breeder should give you copies of all the clearances, not just tell you they exist. The OFA certificate will have a number....a bunch of numbers, then a letter (E, G, or F, meaning Excellent, Good, or Fair), then 2 more numbers and then another letter (M or F, male or female). You must actually see all clearances before you decide to get a puppy.

Samra

[CanadianGolden423]

if he says he's NEVER had eye or heart problems and that's why he doesn't test...RUN RUN RUN!!!!! There is always a chance that one of his breeding dogs will develop cataracts, etc, (CERF eye clearances must be renewed every year) and a recessive gene for one of these problems could turn up. Ex: my puppy's father's line has not had one incidence of hip dysplasia in over 50 dogs. EVERYONE still tests for it, because you never know. It's when you stop checking for problems that they begin to develop.

Samra

[Lee]

Samra, what kind of elbow dysplasia does your dog possibly have? Fragmented coranoid, ununited acaneal process, OCD... I only ask because I recently went through this. It took 4 different vets to get a proper diagnoses. She had surgery a few months ago and so far is doing great. No sign of any lameness since the day she came home. Just as a side note, this dog is not from a backyard breeding and is from parents with all clearances so sometimes genetics just throws a curve ball at you, although hers was fragmented coranoid which can possibly be caused by an injury.

[CanadianGolden423]

Hi,

We aren't sure, although since it is (apparently) not bilateral (all we know for sure right now is she has severe arthritis in her left elbow), it may have been caused by an injury. The x rays are being sent to OFA, so when the results come in I can let you know.

Samra

[CanadianGolden423]

Hi,

We aren't sure, because all we know right now is that she has severe arthritis in her left elbow. However, we suspect it may have been caused by an injury since it doesn't appear to be bilateral. The x rays are being sent to OFA, and I will let you know the result.

Samra

[GoldenLover]

Dianna?????? Are you thinking about another puppy??? That's great news!!! Also, great advise from Swampcollie, Lee, and Canadian Goldens, as well..A healthy, well bred pup is worth the wait. There are some great breeders out there, breeding for the right reasons. The betterment of the breed...I can smell the puppy breath already...Good Luck :)

http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL137/669548/1232120/14333900.ptp

[diiorio]

IF you have the sire and damn names you cna get the pedigrees (5 generations) on the AKC site for 10.00 each. You will be able to view them nad pritn them within a coupel minutes, and some certs will be lsited on them if they ahve them.

My puppies parents have cerf and OFA lsited in the AKC registry.

[diiorio]

OFA/CERF Lookup Search for sire/damn certifications (http://www.offa.org/search.html)

got there enter the AKC registration number of the sire and damn (individually) it will pull all there records with the cerf rating and date done.

[DaisyMae]

In response to the eye and heart clearance. Both of my daisy's parents were cleared as they were exceptional show dogs and were cleared in everything they could be cleared in. However in discussing breeding with my vet recently he told me that OFA was the huge clearence that needed to be done for sure. He said that eyes, I could go to a show and get it done real cheap by a vet there who would do everything right just save me a few dollars. Now he also said that with a heart there can never be a guarantee. He said what he would recommend was doing an ultra-sound and if anything was abnormal then referring me on to get her cleared from a specialist. I know I have a year until all of this needs to be done, but I just wanted your opinions on his suggestion.

[CanadianGolden]

Why would you not get full clearances? Breeding a dog is not a cheap venture--if you're looking to save a few dollars on an eye clearance, I don't recommend breeding. Why have you decided to breed your dog?

[DaisyMae]

Im not looking to save money I was asking because my vet suggested that.. Clearly they are whom you turn to as far as whats in the best interest for your pet, but I was unsure if this advice was true or worth taking. I am planning to have her completely cleared.

[CanadianGolden]

Glad to hear that you are going to have all of her clearances done. You must have had fun showing her. What titles does she have? My four year old just got her second CDX leg.

[DaisyMae]

I dont show Daisy conformation. She has great lines in it as her grandfather and father were champions. I was going to do agility but my uncle trains labs in field and being aroudn that she has really taken a liking to it. She is so eager to learn and has yet to make it to a competition but plans to in the future.

[CanadianGolden]

Hey agility and field aren't mutually exclusive. :) Why not do both? I have not shown in breed yet but am planning to go to Canada this summer to show her there. Plus training here for agility, field, tracking, and obedience. I assume you're planning to do all of your showing before you breed.

What are your dog's bloodlines? Mine is Butterblac/Goldencol and is line bred on Beckwith's Malagold Flash, who is the only dog in history to win HIT and BIS on the same day at the same all-breed trial.

[DaisyMae]

Wow your certainly involved in a lot :) Daisy and I just joined a local club and are going to be getting involved in agility as well as of today. The man that will be teaching trains for AKC trials so I am excited to do that as well, if I can get her attention away from birds long enough :) The group also offers fun activities each month too so hopefully it will be a great beginning for what is to come for daisy.

[ChocFullOfLabs]

If there was no heart clearance, than I would not even consider a puppy. The potential heartbreak is too much for me to risk.

Elizabeth

[ash]

I just thought I would add that if you looked on the OFA website they may not be there because you take your dogs to a heart and eye clinic and they check and give you your results and then it cost a small fee to mail it in and have it on the website. Maybe they did not send it in but have the clearences. I would check with the breeder.