Is shaving necessary?

[Ninatoo]

I was reading the boards and found a topic about shaving the golden retriever. I have not heard of this before, and was wondering if it is a standard practice, a preference or done for the hot weather or something? I had collies and I never shaved them, and they have a lot more hair than the goldens, so I was just wondering? :024

Nina :032

[messano]

Shaving is certainly NOT necessary, desirable or attractive. In my opinion, if you want a shaved golden, get a Labrador Retriever!

There is a photo posted previously on this forum of a shaved Golden if you want to see how undignified and ridiculous a shaven Golden Retriever can look.

messano

[goldenjack]

<font size="+1">I've always thought that grooming is a matter of personal perference. However, I agree 100% with Messano on this point.</font>
<img src = "http://home.att.net/~goldenjack/dinopics/dino129.jpg" border=0>

[Ninatoo]

These thoughts echo mine too, especially about settling for a labrador if you don't like the coat of a golden. To me, the coat gives the dog soooo much character and definition, so why shave it off?

Nina :032

[SweetDaisyDew]

Perhaps one of the reasons some decide to shave their goldens is because they don't want to take care of their natural coat. Goldens, in my opinion, are high maintenance. Keeping their coat matt-free, tangle-free, and beautiful requires daily effort and alot of brushing.

But brushing your golden can be healthy, not just for the dog, but for you too! It can help you relax and can even boost your spirits if you're down.

Daily grooming also helps you stay in touch with what's going on with your golden's body and general health...the coat, the skin, the ears, if there are bumps, irritations, rashes, lumps, bites, ticks, fleas, etc.

In my not-so-humble opinion, shaving a golden detracts from the beauty and integrity of the breed :021

[German Shep]

I guess I will weigh in here, with a slight different angle (since it was my dogs picture). Shaving is not NECESSARY unless maybe the dog has matted hair or coat in bad shape. That being said it is basically a personal choice on the way you want your pet to appear. I read a lot of stuff on this about how the second coat protects the dog and indeed it probably does. But what does it need protection from? Cold, bugs, etc? Well I wonder how many owners out there subject there dogs to excessive heat or cold or conditions where the second coat would be necessary for their SURVIVAL. Based on everything I have read here, I would bet most of the owners here keep their dogs inside during circumstances that could present a problem to the dog and look after the quality of their skin and health very attentively. So I concluded (my opinion) unless your dog is a wild animal out on his own or you just plain neglect him, the idea that it needs the second coat for survival is, let’s say arguable. We had chosen to shave our golden recently after some research and consideration if for no other reason then to see how it looked. It turned out to be a great decision. We love the way he looks and everyone that has seen him has agreed. His hair is growing quite quickly and should be in good shape for when it is cold (we plan to leave it alone for the winter). He is significantly easier to wash and we can inspect his skin much easier and we do still brush him because he enjoys it. There have been no medical problems, depression or change in behavior other than more energy, but this is probably not related to the cut.

There are many dogs out there that are not natural in their appearance, either they have been groomed or bred to meet someone’s opinion of a good appearance or quality, certainly not a product of some sort of evolution. The criteria of what is ‘natural’ looking or opinions on what adds to the dogs beauty or integrity is based on the opinions of humans to be the most correct thing. A single set of criteria to me seems ridiculous. So just because your opinion of a dogs appearance is different from someone else is not a reason to be so harsh. Whose dignity is being harmed here? Did you meet some talking shaved golden retriever and he told you he felt undignified and ridiculous? Sounds to me like you made this decision not the dog.

[ozkittn]

I live on the South East coast of Queensland, in Australia, in a tropical climate and the weather here gets ridiculously hot, i get Bonnie clipped off in late spring for the summer months, and also because she has such thick fur, the shortness of her coat when she is shaved comes in very useful when i am searching her over for paralysis ticks daily. I guess it all depends on how good the groomer is that does the job, sometimes i see some goldens shaved off that look like they heve been done in 5 minutes flat. But i must say german shep, they have done a good job on your little boy, as i can see from the photo!
It just basically comes down to personal choice, but u have to think about the dog too. :\

[honeyhunter]

No it is not necessary to shave. I have shaved many Goldens in the summertime and it is strictly a personal choice.;) If you don't have the time or patience to keep the dog brushed out and feel that the dog would be better served by shaving then that is what you should do for the dogs well being. That is certainly more humane than allowing the dog to become matted and tangled resulting in abscesses. Some believe the dog will be cooler. I personally feel that removing the undercoat sufficiently will keep them cooler in the summer. I do not shave my Golden, and probably never will because I love the Golden in full coat, but I do however keep my Lhasa in a shaved coat. I prefer the look on her and she isn't as crazy about brushing daily as my Golden Honey is. ;) She is somewhat of a spoiled brat!:b

In my opinion~it is a personal preference~it's your dog.

[bkcfamily]

Don't you worry about sunburn on your shaved dog? I live in Florida and although my dog is indoors with me all the time, even a few minutes in our hot summer sun can give you a sunburn.

I don't think it is healthy (or at all attractive), but that is only my opinion. To each their own I guess, unless you are causing the poor thing to get a sunburned.

[messano]

<If you don't have the time or patience to keep the dog brushed out>...............Don't get a Golden Retriever!

messano

[messano]

<So just because your opinion of a dogs appearance is different from someone else is not a reason to be so harsh. Whose dignity is being harmed here? Did you meet some talking shaved golden retriever and he told you he felt undignified and ridiculous? Sounds to me like you made this decision not the dog.>

When I refered to the dogs dignity, I meant that a Golden Retriever in full coat is a glorious sight to behold. Any animal that is an excellent example of breed type exhibits what I refer to as 'dignity' or alternatively 'nobility'. A shaven dog can hardly be considered as such an example.

Removing a dogs identifying feature, in the case of a Golden Retriever his coat, makes him indistinguishable from many other breeds and removes part of his breed 'type' and therefore, admittedly only in my opinion, also removes his dignity.

As an example, shaving a womans hair as a punishment for indiscretion is a well known penalty of years gone by, this was done to remove her dignity and expose her failings for all to see.
Perhaps this explains my sentiments better.

On a historical note, the Golden Retriever coat was developed for both it's water-proofing properties and protection against brush and thorns when retrieving from cover.
Okay, if your dog never swims in water or runs around in rough undergrowth he will probably not require the standard coat, but if he does exhibit these natural tendancies he will certainly appreciate the protection that a full coat gives him!

messano

[German Shep]

<When I refered to the dogs dignity, I meant that a Golden Retriever in full coat is a glorious sight to behold. Any animal that is an excellent example of breed type exhibits what I refer to as 'dignity' or alternatively 'nobility'. A shaven dog can hardly be considered as such an example.>

Once again you assert you opinion.:eek Does that fact that someone differs from your mold of what is beautiful really hurt you so much?:rolleyes Do you cut your hair or shave your legs/face (sorry don't know your gender)? This too could be consider as what you refer to as undignified as it is not a natural appearance and does not display your features that set you apart from others. Or maybe even taking a shower. I think most people would agree they prefer a person groomed to their expectations not some elitist opinion of what is beautiful. I think my dog looks a little less sloppy in his appearance with a shaved look, rather than hair sticking out everywhere and it really shows off how muscular he is :029 , but I don’t run around saying other people’s dogs look sloppy and ridiculous.:021

<As an example, shaving a womans hair as a punishment for indiscretion is a well known penalty of years gone by, this was done to remove her dignity and expose her failings for all to see. Perhaps this explains my sentiments better.>

Yes this explains a lot, what is the year again:054 ??? Would you believe there are people who do this to themselves? I myself do not prefer this on a woman, but I don't assume she is any less of a woman because she selects a different look, nor do I make a point to tell her she is ridiculous. This idea of shaving a woman’s head is from a completely different time period and freedom level that I live in. I for one like diversity and freedom, if not maybe I would head off to the Middle East or join some fanatical organization that seeks to oppress their opinions on other people. Would you also insist parents of children cut their hair they way you think is the best? And if they don’t, call them ridiculous, undignified and less ‘noble’.

My dog actually does swim quite a bit. He loves it and would probably live in the water if he could. Again, he has not shown any change in his behavior or health level since the cut, I will be the first one to tell you if he develops some problem related to cutting his hair. And since he is much easier to clean up, we allow him to swim even more than before, which could be consider an improvement in his life quality.

In closing, the problem as I see it is not that you have a different opinion than me, the problem is your arrogance to think you are the holy grail of dog appearance and health which you believe justifies your comments. Had you simply stated you different opinion and not said derogatory things about my dog, we could have left this alone. But then again people who can’t stand other peoples views tend to be the most outspoken… How does that saying go…? “Why does the person who has such little to say, speak the loudest?”

[SweetDaisyDew]

I am trying to understand why the topic of shaving a golden retriever invariably turns hostile, almost always. As soon as the subject comes up, I cringe...not so much because someone is shaving their golden but because I am anticipating an inevitable falling out.

What, do we suppose, is at the heart of this very sensitive controversy?

[messano]

The reason that I get passionate about the subject of shaving Golden Retrievers is because I am a traditionalist. I am conscious that being a breeder I am partly responsible for the future generations of Golden Retrievers and this includes upholding all the traditions that have been handed down from earlier custodians of the breed.

There is a breed standard for each breed that lays down a blueprint in words, which includes appearance, movement and temperament.

In my opinion, when you have a pedigree dog you are buying into the whole history of the breed, in fact if you join a breed club most of them have a code of ethics which basically states that you will uphold the traditions of the breed.

In the breed standard, a Golden Retriever’s coat is described in words and achieving that description is the aim of most serious breeders.
Therefore, in my opinion, to see a Golden Retriever with a shaven coat goes against all the traditions and history of the breed and is not pleasing to my eye.

I know that it may appear a very minor thing to some people, but to use an example outside the dog world, it is rather like seeing the White House painted bright pink or the Statue of Liberty painted yellow. How many people would be happy to see that happen without making a comment?

I realise that we are never going to agree on this subject, so I will not mention it again or join in any future debate on this topic.

messano

[goldenjack]

Perhaps I can offer some incite about this particular site and why some users have very strict opinions about this breed.

1). Unlike many generic dog sites on the Internet, this site is very specific to the golden retriever breed of dogs. Meaning that it will attract loyal owners of the breed. In some cases, the owners are breeders, or long-time enthusiasts of the breed, people who participate in shows, etc. With that said, some topics WILL often attract some very strict opinions about the breed or the so called "breed standard". These opinions should never be taken personally. Some people are simply more sincere about owning our breed, and the official breed standards for the golden retriever.

2). Now about Messanos' comments. I my opinion, his first reply-post to the original topic, was honest and to the point. I don't think that the comment about the picture was intended to be derogatory towards any specific user. I also believe that most long-time owners are grateful that someone with his experience level responded to the original topic.

3). Let's be honest, some owners of the golden retriever breed own the breed simply because of it's popularity, not because they are breed enthusiasts
or have any understanding about breed standards. Does that make them bad people, no, of course not. But it sometimes generates misunderstandings when topics such as grooming are discussed.

4). Another thing to keep in mind, is that this is an International board. Meaning that it is not specific to any one country. Even with a breed standard, you may get opinions that will vary slightly, depending on the country. That is to be expected, and quite frankly, I think it's interesting.

Just trying to helpful, guys.

[Ninatoo]

Eek!!! :eek I didn't want to state any arguments by starting this topic!!! I was just curious about it since I am a newish Golden owner and thought I mught have missed something!:angel1

Let's all make friends and be happy!:485

Nina :032

[KCGoldens]

As an example, shaving a womans hair as a punishment for indiscretion is a well known penalty of years gone by, this was done to remove her dignity and expose her failings for all to see.
Nefertiti, one of the most beautiful women of the ancient world (along with most ancient Egyptian women of noble birth and royalty) kept her head shaved bald as a bowling ball! :p A bald head was a symbol of social status!


The point of this I guess is that it depends on where you are, and how you look at things! However the shaving a golden discussion always brings out some intense and really good post! ;)

[Goldenjewel]

Hey, I just want to say, if you love your dog then its not going to matter what it looks like. Mine golden was taken to be TRIMED and he was SHAVED by accident. Anyways my point is I loved him even when he didn't look that great and he'll always be my baby! I think that next summer i'm going to shave him at the first of the summer that way his hair can grow back in time for Winter. It will grow back by Winter if you shave it at the first of the summer, unless your dog has a thyroid problem that you don't know about. If your golden does have a thyroid problem and hes on medication, then it should grow back in time for the winter. If you want to shave your golden then shave him, but its not necessary.

Mandy:)

[ChicagoCanine]

Keeping their coat matt-free, tangle-free, and beautiful requires daily effort and alot of brushing.


I don't know if that is true of most Goldens, but it's definitely NOT true of mine! She can go a long time without any brushing and not have a problem. She has nice silky fur that rarely mats-- the only times I've had knots/tangles on her were once when she was licking an area a lot (got a small tangle) and maybe twice have found small tangles behind her ears. Burrs don't even stick to her fur on most of her body-- the only place they can get a hold is on her tail and the 'pants' on her back legs.

Personally I would never shave my Golden, and I hate to see them shaved. There's always a chance of the coat not coming in correctly, plus shaved Goldens are at increased risk for sunburn and skin cancer, etc...

[Goldenjewel]

Well I said earlier that I'm going to shave my golden next summer and I think i'll do that because it helps keep him cool, and I don't have to even think about fleas and ticks cause I can give him a bath alot more and i can see them better! When you shave a golden just make sure you don't shave its tail! IT won't grow back!