Nineteen Minutes Book Club

[Lady Di]

This is the thread to discuss Jodi Picoult's novel Nineteen Mintues..

[Meggie'sMom]

Thanks for making us a thread, Dianne. Today's been a bit wild, but I've been mulling over this book so much and looking at my students through a different lens because of it. Just my first chance to comment on it today.

My first question for all would be, was the ending really a surprise for you? Maybe I've read enough Jodi Picoult books to read her foreshadowing, but she gave this one away really early for me. What I didn't see until page 299 was that the journal entries were Josie's and not Peter's. I had to go back and reread them at that point and again after I finished the book. I'm still thinking about her first one. Perhaps she wrote it when she was still contemplating taking all those pills she had horded. (?) Only thing that makes sense to me.

[Lady Di]

I'm usually pretty good but I didn't see that the entries were Josie's not Peter's for a long time. Like you I had to go back and read some things again. It was obvious there was something going on with her right from the beginning but was totally surprised. I agree with you Cindy, she must have written the first entry when she was contemplating her stash of pills.......so sad. As I stated in the other thread I talked alot with my son this weekend, asked him alot of questions about cliques when he was in high school etc. It breaks my heart what some kids have to go through.

[Meggie'sMom]

Ok, spill Dianne, what did your son tell you? I'd love the hear the perspective from an athlete's POV. :)

[lammer29]

My son had a problem today in 7th grade, a kid he's had trouble with hit him in the back of the head with a pencil, so my son said loudly - why did yu hit me? The teacher heard and questioned the other boy who denied it, but a classmate came forward and said she saw it. so the teacher sent the boy to the principal, he questioned my son, the teacher (who by the way stated she sent him to the principal because he lied), and the witness, and the boy who started it all. As I said, he has had issues with tthis boy before, I had to speak with another teacher because my son got a detention because of behavior,the problem was he was freaked because same boy was threatening to beat him up. I said that I don't care about the detention, he could serve it or not, I wanted action for the threat. The teacher took action and the boy was disciplined. My son felt okay about what happened, though he was shook up, but one of the other classmates whispered to him that he was a tattletale (another known bully). SO do I over react because of this book? My instinct to is have the school continue to handle and see how it goes, but what are your opinions?My son knows that if I (or we as in hubby and I)get involved it won't be pretty.He sais that the kid had been hitting him with the pencil several times over the past week and he was just fed up, said it didn't hurt,he was just sick of it. I think that is a good sign. My advise to him was that he did the right thing as I felt this kid was testing him and would escalate futher and maybe now he'll think twice since it is on the record.... or it could backfire.

Getting back to the book, I knew from hints in the book that there was more going on with Josie in the locker room, I even wondered if she somehow was in on some of it(like planning, but it got out of hand) earlier in the book, but then it didn't go that way. They never described the incident that she was on crutches for other than her confession to Peter in the elevator. It took me awhile to get that the notes were Josie, too.
I knew that the ending could not have Peter be aquitted,I feel that the book really did want you to sympathize with him, too.

What did you think of her mom and her parenting skills? And compare to Peter's mom's skills?

[Meggie'sMom]

I think middle school is such an awful time for most kids, Linda. I do not envy you these years. I was so glad when my child finished eighth grade. I think if I were you I would continue to stay in touch with the teacher and the principal. Sometimes just knowing that a parent is involved and aware will make them do their job a little better. Keep the lines of communication open with your son and let him know that the behavior from the bully is not acceptable and going to an adult does not make him a tattletale. My son had some similar incidents in upper elementary and middle school and it was frustrating. One of the kids bullying him was another teacher’s son (two years older than my child and at least 3 times bigger) and when I tried to talk to her about it, she put her hand in my face and told me she did not “get into” her children’s issues. Excuse me? So you’re saying you don’t parent?

As for Alex in the novel, quite honestly, I didn’t like her. For that matter I wasn’t overly fond of Josie either. Alex didn’t parent, just seemed to let things happen and use her career as an excuse for not knowing about certain things in her child’s life. Josie apparently has no self esteem and couldn’t get past the idea that she would be left out of the popular crowd if she showed any form of humanity toward anyone not in that group. I expect she would have come off as little snot to most people when she was with her “friends“.

Lacy also had issues with parenting by burying her head in the sand after she found the drugs in the room of her older son. Instead of making her more vigilant in knowing what was going on in Peter’s life, she chose to turn a blind eye. I think I may have gone too far in the other direction. She had some self-esteem issues as well, since she let a young inexperienced teacher pass the buck and convince her that the best way to handle Peter was to “toughen” him up and she then threatened him with the loss of the only real friendship the child had at the time. I never felt more for Peter in the novel than I did over that threat to not be able to play with Josie unless he defended himself.

I don’t know that there is one way to deal with a child who is being victimized by bullies, I think it depends on the child and what they can handle. There are children who seem to scream “I am a victim” by their very demeanor and they seem to grow up to be adults who still scream “I am a victim”. I’m thinking in those cases it would take serious help with a professional to get to the root of it. Thankfully, most children don’t fall into that category and other devices can be helpful, but sometimes an adult just has to let the bullies know that it is not acceptable and stay on top of it along with giving the child acceptable ways of handling things. In school situations I firmly believe the adults have the responsibility to stay alert and take care of the bully. It is not difficult to know the kids you teach well enough to know their personalities and be able to ferret out who is doing the bullying.

[lammer29]

[B]Maggiesmom[B]: I agree with you on the personal info, thanks. Middle school is the pits! No news today, but they had the state's standardized testing today, so they didn't have regular classes. My son doesn't seem to be worried or upset, hope it stays that way. I was worried at one point about being one of those 'victims' type, but he has been able to find a nice group of kids this year and life is so much better for him. He also is sensitive and doesn't take teasing well - I think being an 'only' you just don't get used to teasing and firing back well. A mom can only tease so much and then it's just cruel (joke)!!so I try to get him to put things in perspective, stand up for himself and always go to a grownup and let them make the decision (and keep talking to me or dad so we can intervene if necessary).

I definitely did not like either of the parents and their parenting skills either. I know that book made it seem that Alex didn't know any better because of how her dad was with her, but you'd think it would have made her the opposite, knowing how lousey that type of parenting was for her growing up (of course I am speaking as if they are real people!) I guess the author had to write both sets of parents that way, not that even with involved parents things don't happen, but it is sure better than finding pipe bombs in your child's closet. I know I drive my son crazy, but I atleast have an idea of what is in his closet/room without violating his privacy.Alex was always so busy putting up a front for the world, she forgot to be a part of it! I mean, your teenage daughter's boyfriend is at your house to the we hours of the morning, on the couch for hours...........it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what they are doing.I mean they may do it anyway, but I am not about to enable them!As far as Peter's parents... the only time the book discussed his mom even tryijg to get info was in Kindergarten!He was clearly in trouble and needing help and she had no clue! Even before finding the drugs in her other son's room, she chose to be clueless. Do you not notice no friends coming over to your house, no playdates, etc. Dad needed to do some happiness stats with his kids!And could you imagine an older brother as mean without having a conversation with your parents about it??I did feel sad for Peter as all the grownups in his life failed him.Certainly I could appreciate his defense a whole lot better if he had only gone after those that had tortured him so much, not just random violence. I am not saying that I condone any action like that, just that I could understand the motivation a whole lot more. I just can't believe that an incident in the cafeteria with Peter's pants would not have some kind of school administration involvement. I don't think something of that nature could stay under wraps.Atleast I would hope not.I also didn't care for the whole romance thing with the detective, wasn't necessary, and it ends with her being pregnant? Not very realistic to me.

[lammer29]

http://www.bookbrowse.com/reading_guides/detail/index.cfm?book_number=1941

I found a reader's guide for book clubs at this site, they have some good questions.(this was a cut and paste from my browser's window) anyone want to pick another q?

[waterabbit]

Hi Guys! I wanted to say that I enjoyed reading the book. It was fast paced and kept me interested. Though not my favorite, (My Sister's Keeper) Picoult did do a good job weaving each character's life, and stayed true to their weaknesses or strengths. There was no Aha! moment for anyone in the book, they were just human like us all. I personally did not like Alex, she really seemed like she had not grown at all after deciding to keep Josie. She seemed detached to me, and of course, I sort of blame her for not giving Josie enough self esteem and pride about herself. I don't believe Josie would have so easily allowed a boy to abuse her had she had a better parental force in her life. I did not think that Lacy was up for any mother of the year award either. Burying your head to avoid confrontation or the truth should never be a parent's stance. I like the fact that she used other character's from other books in this one. It was a pleasant surprise.
Oh yeah- Alex being pregnant? C'mon it's what started the whole Josie situation. Talk about not learning from one's mistakes- :eek:

[Meggie'sMom]

I also didn't care for the whole romance thing with the detective, wasn't necessary, and it ends with her being pregnant? Not very realistic to me.
Thank you, Linda & Lynn!! I found the whole relationship between Alex and Patrick distracting and a bit contrived. And the description of Patrick -- excuse me, was that so Patrick Demspey would be sure to play him in the movie version? McDreamy - not!

I think we're all on the same page with our feelings for these characters. It may squish our discussions to be in such agreement! :D Maybe we should each pick one of the discussion questions to begin with and see if we exhaust ourselves (?)

All this talk of students and cliques made me go to one of our guidance counselors today to inquire about a freshman girl I have not seen in some time. I knew her in elementary school, as did this counselor, and she never really fit in with any group and was such a loner even then I was worried about her. I'm feeling really guilty that I haven't done more to try to reach out to her this year, but she has come across as so angry I wasn't sure that any reaching out on my part would be welcome. Apparently the school social worker is involved with the mom and truancy and possibly drugs are in the picture. So sad.

Oh and Linda, I'm so glad that your son has a found a good group of kids to fit in with this year. I raised my son as an only child as a single mom (his dad and I separated when he was 4) and I can empathize with so much of what you're going through. Zack was not an athlete and tended to be sensitive and not deal with teasing well (though honestly, who does?). He was assertive though, and once preached a lesson to his entire kindergarten class about animal abuse in relation to the stomping of earthworms on the sidewalk after a rain storm! (His K teacher told me he chewed the other kids out and and told them "Worms are people too!") It sounds like you have a young man with good common sense about these things and he'll be okay.

[Lady Di]

Sorry I didn’t get back in here to post yesterday but one of my co-workers had an accident yesterday and I was at the hospital with her. I think it’s amazing that we all feel the same way about the mother’s in this story. There were times I felt like they were trying to reach out to their kids but they just didn’t. Teenagers as you all know are very complicated creatures. One minute they act like they love you to death and the next minute they look at you like you have two heads. I was very close with the Mother’s of my son’s closest friends. My son played baseball from the time he was 5 through his senior year in high school. Most of these boys remain good friends even though they are all going to different colleges and don’t get to see each other very often. I remember one night when I was quizzing my son on where he was going, who he was going with, what they were going to do when they got there, he looked at me and said “Why do you need to know all this”? “Nobody else’s Mother asks these questions”. I just laughed because one of his best friend’s mothers had just that her son said the exact same thing when she was asking him about his plans. My point, I made it my business to not only know his friends but also their families. Living in a small town makes this easier but at the same time it takes effort, you have to stick your nose in their business whether they like it or not. I mentioned my son and I had several talks about cliques this weekend. He explained at his school you had the Preps, the jocks, the rednecks, the skateboarders/surfers and a small group that dressed all in black and were known as the Goths. I am sure there were other groups but these are the ones that stick in his mind. I asked him what group he fell into and he said people would probably label him a jock but because he took all honors and Advanced Placement courses he could be considered a prep as well. He maintains he had friends in all groups and got along pretty well with everybody. He worked through high school at a marina and several of the boys that worked with him would be considered the Skaters. This group tended to be the ones known to be the party crowd. Of course I’m not naïve enough to think this was the only group doing things they shouldn’t. My son’s baseball coach was very “old school” as the kids call it. Demanded they keep their grades up, hair short, no facial hair, definitely no pierced ears and maintained that they represented the high school both on and off the field. This man had a tremendous impact on these young boys. The most interesting thing that came out of our conversations was he felt because he was a “Jock” he and his group were given preferential treatment by most of the staff and teachers. I was shocked. He said he could pretty much come and go as he wanted. He said if he was in the hall when he should have been in class rarely did anyone say anything and if they did it was more a suggestion rather than ever being disciplined. So here we have grown ups treating theses athletes different than they treat other kids. Just blows my mind. Can you imagine how it makes the other kids feel to see teachers acting this way? Have any of you ever noticed certain kids being treated differently?

[lammer29]

Okay, this is one question from the list, we have touched on most of the q's in some way so far!
Why does Josie choose to shoot Matt instead of shooting Peter? Why does Peter remain silent about Josie's role in the shooting? In the end, has justice been satisfactorily dealt to Peter and to Josie?
Any comments, opinions or ideas?

[Meggie'sMom]

Dianne, hope your coworker is okay. Your son's observations are interesting and sound a lot like the high school where I work. I admit to treating students differently, but not because they are athletes. I am guilty of remembering things too well and if a student has ever lied to me, I tend to speak to them faster than I would a student I consider trustworthy. If a student is out of class in the library without permission I will ask them to get a note regardless of their status on campus, and perhaps sometimes I am harder on the athletes who come across as privileged characters and try to use their celebrity to get away with favors. (Quite often it seems the administration does enough of this so we teachers don't have to.) I do have one coworker who comes to mind though as one who really does show a leaning toward the preps and the jocks. We have a couple of graduates who play basketball for Carolina (UNC) and a couple of weeks ago when they were playing the first round of the NCAA tourney in town, they came by school to visit and some of their teammates were with them. She followed them around like a smitten schoolgirl. It was bit nauseating.

As for the questions: Why does Josie choose to shoot Matt instead of shooting Peter? Why does Peter remain silent about Josie's role in the shooting? In the end, has justice been satisfactorily dealt to Peter and to Josie?

I think Josie is showing the PTSD of a battered woman when she chooses to shoot Matt. She sees no way out of her abusive situation, especially if she wants to keep her popularity. I think Jordan's defense could have worked on her. Peter remains silent because he believes sharing a secret with Josie means she is his friend again. I have no idea whether justice has been served. Nobody wins in situations like this. Nothing brings back the people who were murdered, no one can "fix" any of these lives. How can society ever weigh the destruction against any kind of punishment? Peter's death wouldn't balance it, neither would Josie's. Everyone is a victim and who actually is to blame? If only there were black and white answers in life. Bad things wouldn't happen to good people and good things wouldn't happen to bad people. Just my humble opinion.

[lammer29]

Meggie's Mom, I agree with you on why Josie shot Matt instead of Peter that she could see no way out without losing her position in the school hierarchy. I also wonder if she just finally had the nerve to 'stand up' for Peter after all those times she didn't, as she knew that Matt would definitely shoot Peter without a blink, even if he weren't defending himself.You are probably right about the PTSD, too, but I found her to be so unlikeable, I don't want to give her an 'excuse'. That probably sounds weird, but I may be too harsh in 'judging' her because of my dislike for her. Peter's feelings for Josie were so deep I think he'd have done anything for her, unfortunately. I don't have my book, so I am trying remember the court's decision for Josie, but short of a personality transplant and a good shrink, I don't think she has much of a chance to reform.Peter went to jail but in the end he took his own life and I wonder what Josie thought about that and her responsibility in enabling what Peter had become and his eventual suicide. Too cozy of an ending - and I have read Salem Falls but for the life of me I can't remember much about Patrick in it, I thought I read somewhere that he was a character in that, too.

As far as have I ever witnessed preferential treatment for certain students? Well, I can't think of any at my job in elementary school.......But in my high school (you know, the times of the dinosaurs) there was preferential treatment of jocks, but no overly so, I mean I don't offhand recall a blatant wrong being done because of one's status of lack thereof.Although if I had to describe my experience, it was pretty much just as your son's, except I wasn't a jock! It is interesting because I was speaking with a parent of a boy 1 year ahead of my son just this week about the team that both our sons are on, and she said that she felt that a certain teacher was sexist (per her son). That she definitely does not give the same breaks to boys that she does to the girls. I subtly inquired of my son and a girl friend of his last night, after a school concert we went out for ice cream and I inquired, but they said no, so either it is a mistaken observation or the difference between 7th and 8th grade awareness! As far as asking questions of my son, I know that I will hear the same line! Guaranteed! And I will still ask questions, my parents never did, and I did get into my share of trouble, nothing big, thank goodness, maybe that is why I'll ask so many, I know too much!And even though there was our share of bad choices, I feel that the hazards are so much bigger and badder now for our young people.It has become a very scary world out there!
I did get a chuckle out of your co-worker - I wonder if she'll ever realize how silly she must have seemed. Although with all the teachers in the news lately having relationships with their students, she'd better watch herself, least she be too cozy!Hopefully it was harmless.

[Lady Di]

I would like to think Josie finally found the nerve to stand up for Peter but I truly don't know. I think the combination of the abuse she suffered and the fact that Peter was one of her first friends made her react as she did. I still can't believe I didn't even consider someone other than Peter shot Matt. Truly didn't see it coming.

[Meggie'sMom]

Linda wrote:
I don't have my book, so I am trying remember the court's decision for Josie, but short of a personality transplant and a good shrink, I don't think she has much of a chance to reform.
LOL! Have you found that you like these characters even less now that you are finished with the book? I think I do. BTW, Josie got 5 years at a women's penitentiary, pleading manslaughter.

Too cozy of an ending I agree. I think Jodi is slipping a bit in the quality of her books. She sure is cranking them out quickly. And was anyone else bothered by the poor editing? Of course, I seem to find that in most fiction books these days.


I did get a chuckle out of your co-worker - I wonder if she'll ever realize how silly she must have seemed. Although with all the teachers in the news lately having relationships with their students, she'd better watch herself, least she be too cozy!Hopefully it was harmless.
Oh, she is entirely harmless, just a bit "dazzled" by "celebrity". She is really a hoot to be around, so I forgive her for it, but she can be silly, especially about the "jocks" at school.

We seem to winding down, but I do wonder about this question from the discussion group:
Josie and Peter were friends until the sixth grade. Is it understandable that Josie decided not to hang out with Peter in favor of the popular crowd? Why or why not? How accurate and believable did you find the author’s depiction of high school peer pressure and the quest for popularity? Do you believe, as Picoult suggests, that even the popular kids are afraid that their own friends will turn on them?


Do y'all really think that cliques are as well defined as the ones in this book, or that the entire group is so afraid of losing their identity that they can't be seen talking to anyone outside the group? I see a blending of the cliques at my school, sort of like Dianne was saying about her son being a jock and a prep. In fact, those two identities seem to be the most blended with the white students in our school. We tend to have some African-American students who are preps, but they usually are the ones strong in performing arts rather than jocks. Weird how the lines fade among different groups of students. I just don't see our kids' fear of losing their friends because they are friendly with someone who doesn't fit their stereotype. I think most people have a better defined sense of self than the kids in this book. There are a few who have the totally "snotty" attitude, but I think that comes from the "old money" attitude we have among a very few families, and usually it's girls who act like this. (Sorry to say, for my gender) These students tend to act like they are above others, but my guess is they are lacking in self-esteem and overcompensate for it with the attitude. They also learn it from mom and dad.

We seem to have more girls with good self-esteem lately, though still the majority fall outside this catagory. Our school has been on this kick the past year to try to "save" our African-American males, but I think our females in all racial categories need extra attention more than anyone. I don't know how or why confident little girls can hit puberty and suddenly doubt everything about themselves. I ownder if there isn't something akin to bullying that contributes. Girls are so at the mercy of boys because their physical changes are there for all the world to see, and boys are very verbal. Many times I have felt blessed to have had a son to raise instead of a daughter. It's tough being a teenage girl, always has been best as I can recall.

[waterabbit]

My daughter is almost 21, now in college. She was very popular in high school. She was in all the clubs, on Prom Court, Powder Puff Football, all AP classes, etc.. She had friends from the different groups, and there never seemed to be a problem, for her at least. Ally told me about email, and text messaging wars, mostly led by girl's. The majority of fights at the school were girl fights. To me, it seemed the girl's were actually meaner than than guys. I remember telling Ally to never say anything bad about anyone, because it might come back to you. I know that sounds lame, but it worked. She always thought about what could happen before saying anything. Sure enough, there was an incident where some girl's three wayed a phone call to another girl and got her to say bad things about another. Guess who was on the line? Yep, and a BIG fight the next day at school. And these girl's fight... I was at the school one time and witnessed one. This girl started beating the teacher who tried to break up the fight. :eek: The teacher was sent to the hospital. The anger and hate in some of the young girl's today is very scary. I don't know why they are so angry, but we definitely have a problem with some of our young adults, and need to find a solution.

[lammer29]

Have you found that you like these characters even less now that you are finished with the book?

Yes, definitely! As i was reading, I was just trying to get the story, but in thinking about it after, I definitely disliked these characters more and more!

[QUOTE]To me, it seemed the girl's were actually meaner than than guys
I have heard that girls are meaner than boys many times. Especially in today's society for some reason.

About the next discussion question........I guess that it is logical and probable that we'd most likely drift away from friends we had when we were younger as our maturity rates might differ as well as our interests. But I still think you's still be friendly...... not supporting bullying/insulting by others to this person. You can still like them and not hang out with them! or hang out in a different venue, for example in one class only, or an after school activity. Unless you were one of thes "mean" girls and the relationship ended very badly!I know that I have cyber-bullying to look forward to with my son being 13, I shudder to think what is out there on that front. Maybe it is rose-colored glasses, but I certainly hope that the clique descriptions in the book are not the norm. I think (hope) that today's kids are not that afraid of their own friends turning on them that they are as shallow as Josie and her group.I don't remember being so confused about 'belonging' as was the issue in the book.Have things changed that much, that I am just in the clouds?If it is this bad, self esteem needs to be addressed, as these kids are the future of our country (gosh, I sound so old and cliche) and are we in trouble------ sounds like the characters of 24! (which I love) but most need personality transplants, and they are the ones running the gov't on the show!Sorry to compare to a TV program but I carried thoughts about our country into my critique of another form of 'role models' our young people are exposed to in the media,even if it is fiction.Hopefully I 'm not too 'out-there' in my comparison.I think that hearing about both of your children and how they seem to be so grounded and successful, it isn't as much of a problem as we might think, in spite of society today!

[lammer29]

Oh, yeah, I forgot to say that a few coworkers thought that this book should be required reading for high school,what do you think?I guess, so, although I think maybe just for the purpose of initiating a discussion on the topic of school violence/bullying, certainly not for the literary value!

[waterabbit]

Required High School reading?? I think it's a good idea... :) Hopefully, no one would try and copy cat the story. You know the kids that will do something wrong and then blame it on books, games, media, music,parents... :(
As far as liking the characters after the book has been put away, not so much. Of course, wasn't happy with some of them during reading. I was disappointed that after Josie came forward, we were not privy to the outrage that must have happened in the community. Matt's parents must have been out of their minds. The whole book we had to hear how horrible people thought Lacy was, but we did not get to see Alex being judged.

[lammer29]

The whole book we had to hear how horrible people thought Lacy was, but we did not get to see Alex being judged

good point, waterabbit!maybe then the ending of the book wouldn't have felt so contrived. I think that is a good point of what was missing in the whole book, too. Not enough community response/reaction.

[waterabbit]

Yep! I agree. I would have rather heard the town's reaction to Josie and Alex, even Lacy's reaction to it, then hear about Alex's pregnacy.

[Lady Di]

Well I can honestly say this book has made me think. Even though I didn't like how it ended and didn't like alot of the characters I have done alot of soul searching. It also prompted me to discuss with my son his opinions on this subject. We had some wonderful conversations. I didn't always like what he was telling me but I loved the fact he was willing to talk to me openly. In my experience when boys get mad at other boys they are out there with it....they will tell another boy they're ticked off and why they are ticked off. Girls on the other hand get 20 of their close personal friends who get 20 of their close personal friends to be mad at this girl. Do y'all agree? It took me a while when my son was younger to understand all this. My son was definitely one of the alpha males in his group and I was often shocked by how up front they were when they were mad at someone. The only good part of this is once it was out in the open it was usually over but the girls seemed to turn their arguments into full fledged warfare.

[lammer29]

It seems life does imitate art! I am sorry to say that I keep having similar incidents to our discussions in my son's life. His two closest friends are beefing,so at lunch the 2 are either arguing or not speaking to each other. My son said it is brutal to sit there and he tried yelling at them yesterday telling them how childish they are being. Neither will give in til the other says sorry! He feels stuck in the middle.It was really bothering yesterday. My advice was for him to tell them to either get over it, tell them to not sit with each other, or just have my son move to another table he has friends at. The two aren't trying to have my son choose sides (yet). But it is true that girls would have probably have made him do so and then really get caught in the middle when the original two make up!(I hope the next book I can't relate to at all! I feel like I must live in some sort of soap opera!)

[Lady Di]

!(I hope the next book I can't relate to at all! I feel like I must live in some sort of soap opera!) I think you just summed up the teenage years :D

[lammer29]

Speaking of teenage girls' bad behavior,I just noticed that Mean Girls is on TNT tonight. I never did get to see it, as it was about 'girls' and at the time it came out, it wasn't 'cool' to see a movie about that (per my then probably 11 year old son). I think I'll record it, even though it's a comedy, bet it's not so nice how those girls can behave.

[Meggie'sMom]

Lynn wrote:
I would have rather heard the town's reaction to Josie and Alex, even Lacy's reaction to it, then hear about Alex's pregnacy.
Good point! It would have been much better to have Alex get a feel for what Lacy was put through by the community. Very unrealistic for her life to be so tidy. We should send this to Jodi and ask her to respond.

Interesting the comments about teen girls. I have heard about these 3 way calls and the meanness behind them. I have to agree that boys tend to be more up front when they have a problem with a friend. What is it about females that we need not only group support when we are upset with someone, but we tend to be cowards about it too? Maybe it's a confrontation issue. I know I am very bad at confrontations.

Also concerning girl fights -- the VAST majority of our fights at school are between girls, usually over a boy. Ridiculous.

[Lady Di]

There you are Cindy :) Linda and I have been waiting for you :029 I truly can't say much about girls though. I probably wasn't the nicest in my teen years either but I will say I'm a much nicer person now. I have see Mean Girls but I really can't remember much about it. Linda, Cindy how many children do have? I have only the one child and I'm an only child too. My husband is the oldest of 8, 7 boys and 1 girl....can you imagine??

[Meggie'sMom]

I can't imagine, Dianne! Wow! Eight! Bet he gets a kick out of "Eight is Enough" and "Cheaper By the Dozen" types of TV/movies. I am a middle child, one older sister and a younger brother. I have one child, my son, who is 19 and a college freshman at NC State (Go Wolfpack!). His dad and I have been divorced since he was 4 and he has been pretty much just my child. He managed to turn out well despite me. :) I was lucky in that as a school librarian I was at the same school with him through K-4th grade and again 9-12. Imagine -- he never complained! I've threatened to look into library positions at State, but I think he knows I am only kidding (well, maybe half way, there IS a tuition break that goes with it!)

I'm sure I have done my share of catty nasty things to other girls. I think we all have at least one instance in our life. I was always the smallest in my family with cousins, etc... and my sister and first cousin used to really "give me the business" as Wally Cleaver would say, so I sure know how it feels to be on that side too. I think it made me more sensitive to others feelings. I certainly hope I am a better adult, but I am no saint and do listen when that school gossip mill grinds. Though I can truthfully say I avoid the workroom at school except for restroom facilities. It can get mean in there too! :D

I saw Mean Girls on TV a few months ago -- pretty silly, but those cliques we've been talking about are sure represented well! It is kind of cute.

[lammer29]

I am one of 4 girls, but the closest sister in age to me is 11 years older,so I was kind of an only. 2 of my sisters were out of the house by the time I was 6! We have just the one 13 year old boy. We would have loved to have more, but I guess it just wasn't in the cards(although not 8, though!). I tried for years and lots of medical stuff as well as lots of $, but, just the one! And as you can tell,he keeps me busy. He and I were in the same school only for 4th and 5th grade, I really liked it, and I think he did, too.Except when I knew everything via his teachers. They told me stuff that I really didn't need to know (trivial) and it always drove him crazy when I knew about some stuff! But I am sure he is glad I am not at his middle school.Me, too, because with all the things going on in middle school (as I've bored you with already), I'd probably be in alot of kids' faces!I can't believe that other mom that doesn't get into her child's business, what's the point of parenting, especially in light tht there obviously was a problem with her child's behavior, her method wasn't working, duh!You can hurt me, but not my baby! I am lucky that he even tells me all the stuff he does, I hope it continues, but no guarantee.Cindy, it sounds like you and your son are close.That is nice.Also you,too Dianne. Gives me hope to stay that way no matter what his age.You all have older children than mine, I believe, even Waterabbit, do you have just the one daughter? I am sorry if the answer in is a thread, we all started out in the other thread of Reading,so I get confused and have tried to reread both threads, but my age is showing (you all have the older kids, but I am old enough to have several older kids - 50).

[Lady Di]

Don't y'all find it amazing that we all only have one child? Linda, my husband and I wanted more but it just wasn't in the cards for us either. My son is 19 will be 20 in September, he's a sophomore at the College of Charleston. I will be 49 in July. Cindy , I truly admire you for raising your son on your own. :029 That can't have been easy and it's obvious he's turned out to be a fine young man.

[waterabbit]

Yep! I just have the one daughter. I'm 43 by the way. I found out I was a carrier of the cancer that my daughter was born with, so... no more children. I was adopted three times, and didn't know my family history, so I had no genetic testing before or during pregnancy. I do have my hands full with my nieces though! Two of them will be at our home for their spring break this week! The eight year old wants to be a vet, and loves horses. I'm paying for lessons for her, and she'll have her first one this week. The older one is 13 going on 30, and has really been giving her mom a hard time. She has started running away to her friends houses, and has decided she wants to live with her dad after the school year is out. I'm so glad I never had to deal with that kind of drama! Gee, sorry!! I went on like I do in my blog! :laugh2

[Meggie'sMom]

We do have a lot in common! I'm 48 (or will be in a couple of weeks, so I need to get used to the number :) ) Dianne, my son will be 20 in August, I let him wait an extra year to begin kindergarten because we had just moved half way across the state and I thought he could use some time to adjust. I think it was the right decision for him.

My son and I are close, Linda, and I bet you and yours will stay that way too. It was really nice last year to be at the same school with him during his senior year. I knew so many of his classmates too and it just made it a really special time. I'm with you on middle school years. I taught middle school a couple of years very early in my career and I would say that is my least favorite age group to deal with. They need good teachers who like kids at that stage in life, I am just not one of them.

Lynn, you certainly have had an interesting life. I'd like to know more about this genetic condition if it isn't too personal. Can you link us to your blog? Or is that allowed? And bless your heart for being so involved with your nieces. I'm sure their mom is grateful. Maybe the riding lessons will fit in our discussion on God of Animals so we can hear more about them too.

[waterabbit]

Hey Ladies! I ordered the book this morning from Amazon, and it will be here Wednesday. Wait for me- okay?? Oh, by the way i'll pm my live journal, okay?
It really is just day to day mutterings of my existence here on earth with hubby, Ally and Sundance. Totally open to the public :)
Meggies' mom- I really have had quite the life! lol You know how people say they could write a book?? I really could. Oh, I am a carrier of bi- lateral retinal blastoma, and unfortunately my daughter is now one too. :mad:

[waterabbit]

Ok. I added it to my profile :rolleyes: WARNING- Enter at your own risk, may cause boredom.. :eek:

[Meggie'sMom]

I can't read profiles on this board, never have been able to. Is it just me? I thought it was the way the forum was set.

[Lady Di]

I don't think we are able to read profiles on this board. Lynn, you could PM the link to us. I would love to read your blog. :) Cindy I think you made the right decision for your son. My son is quite a bit younger than most of his friends. It truly wouldn't have hurt him to start school a year later.

[waterabbit]

All you do is left click on the name- say ... waterabbit and it gives you options- Meggies mom- it took me to your home page! Love it by the way!! Check your treasure chests- I sent
Meggies mom, Lammer 29 and Lady Di a treat!!!

[Lady Di]

Hmmm I'm a little confused here :D When you say right click on the name, you mean I go to one of your posts and right click? Help !!!!

[waterabbit]

yes - go to my name on my post and left click on the name- it will show you options and even a goddie chest- I Love that feature- it will take you to someone's home page - if they have one! You can also do it to your own name and get treats

[Lady Di]

Oh I'm getting it, thank you. I didn't right click though I left clicked and got it to come up. I see where I can send you something but can't figure out how to get something you sent me. :confused: Wow, thanks for showing me that. All this time I've been on here and didn't even know how this worked.

[Meggie'sMom]

Okay, I got it Lynn, I wasn't thinking about the home page choice, I was so focused on the user profile choice. Good to know everything else works under the names. I don't know where to pick up a goodie from the treasure chest though... anybody???

Oh and thanks for visiting Meggie's home page. We love visitors. :)

ETA: Oh Lynn, after reading your livejournal and your profile, all I can say is we could be sisters! We are SO on the same page on so many things! ;)

[lammer29]

I also had no idea that stuff was in there!Meggiesmom, your homepage is super! Love the pics -beautiful! Waterabbit Your journals are awesome, although I feel a little like I am reading someone's diary!Maybe one day in my spare time I'll figure out how to do a home page for my dogs and family and start a journal, too.It is inspiring!It looks really hard to do - are either of them hard?Is the homepage something you do on your own and import or is it part of this site? Same question with the journal?They are both really nice and a really nice feature of this site, thanks to both of you( and to johnwa - just when I think this site is the best, it gets better!)I hope all of you have a great week!

[waterabbit]

Thanks Lammer 29- No, the sites are our own, we just show them on our profile so you can go to them! About it being like reading my diary, it is in a way, just online. I post daily, or at least I try. I had a website like Meggies Mom with Prince and Sundance. It was called Nothin' but Goldens, which is my tag on this site. I closed it down after Prince passed away. I couldn't bear it, and still can't. Maybe this summer I'll get another one up with just Sundance. Once set up, it's not hard work. It can be rewarding, like my live journal, I think it helps keep me sane. I can vent, or not, and it is fun. Hope you start your own! :)

[Meggie'sMom]

Thanks Linda. My website is provided by my ISP - earth link. They have a simple click and fill out the form type of choice for their sites, but I made mine on Adobe PageMill and published up using the space provided. It's just for fun and I've actually made a couple of cyber-friends by having it up. It's not difficult at all.

Hope y'all are getting the good weather we are here. I feel sure Lynn and Dianne are, but Linda it looks like you may be getting ready to be hit by old man winter again in MA by the end of the week!

[Lady Di]

Cindy, please tell Meggie I just love her website :029 Great photos of your horses. Meggie's baby pictures are so sweet and your son is so handsome. Lynn, your live journal is really interesting. I love the current mood setting on there. :D Our weather has been beautiful.....I just love warm weather but they say it's going to cool off over the weekend. Oh well just as long as the sun shines I'm happy. My son is coming home for Easter but has already informed me he's going to his friends river house for most of the weekend. This is the first weekend in quite a while that all of his friends will be home. They all have spring break at different time so they will be reunited this weekend. Wouldn't I just love to be a fly on the wall......probably not. Haven't picked up the book yet but will get it this weekend for sure.

[waterabbit]

The new book just got here! :D I will have to start it after the nieces leave. They are draining the life out of me, I'm sorry to say. I somehow thought it wouldn't be this difficult, but between the older on my computer all the time, and the young one on ME all the time, I'm ready for Friday to get here already!! :eek:

[Lady Di]

Okay now repeat after me....I can do this jump2 Now just keeping saying that over and over again and before you know it it will be Friday. :D

[waterabbit]

A wonderful mantra!!! If you read my blog, you know the older niece is sick to top it all off!! I love them, but boy, I am not used to 24-7 kids. Thanks Lady Di :) Even Sundance is tired. :(

[Meggie'sMom]

Hang in there, Lynn! It does sound like you have your hands full ....and like you have been taken advantage of... :(

If it's okay I'm going to open a thread for The God of Animals. I found a site with a nice blurb by the author and a link to one of her short stories. It's from several years ago, but still very interesting. I really like her. We can certainly take our time before discussing the book, but maybe we'll lure some others over to read too. I found some discussion questions, but won't post them as they contain "spoilers". :) I really liked the book and hope you all do too.

[waterabbit]

Thanks Meggies Mom- Ok the new thread sounds good. I'll look for it today! Haven't started the book yet, but it shouldn't take long. :)

[Meggie'sMom]

No rush on reading!! I'm not sure Dianne has even bought it yet. Y'all take your time and enjoy it. It really is good. I thought we might find a few more peopel who want to read with us.

[Lady Di]

I promise I'm going to pick up the book this weekend :D Oh and Lynn......tomorrow's Friday cheerleade Cindy are you on Spring Break next week? Our schools here are all on break so I warned all my teacher friends I didn't want to hear from them next week while they're vacationing and I'm working.

[Meggie'sMom]

Actually Dianne, I am at the end of spring break. :( I've been off the past week. It's been nice and I got some things done, but not enough. I need one more week!