The God of Animals/ Aryn Kyle

[Meggie'sMom]

Several of us are reading Aryn Kyle's first novel The God of Animals. It is set in Colorado on a horse ranch and can best be described (I think) as a coming-of-age novel. Twelve-year-old Alice Winston tells the story with a wicked sense of humor and desperate need to to belong. While horses are involved in every part of the novel, the themes of loneliness and guilt are very human. If anyone else is interested in reading and discussing, we would love to have you join in.

Here's what the publishers are saying:
When her older sister runs away to marry a rodeo cowboy, Alice Winston is left to bear the brunt of her family's troubles -- a depressed, bedridden mother; a reticent, overworked father; and a run-down horse ranch. As the hottest summer in fifteen years unfolds and bills pile up, Alice is torn between dreams of escaping the loneliness of her duty-filled life and a longing to help her father mend their family and the ranch.

To make ends meet, the Winstons board the pampered horses of rich neighbors, and for the first time Alice confronts the power and security that class and wealth provide. As her family and their well-being become intertwined with the lives of their clients, Alice is drawn into an adult world of secrets and hard truths, and soon discovers that people -- including herself -- can be cruel, can lie and cheat, and every once in a while, can do something heartbreaking and selfless. Ultimately, Alice and her family must weather a devastating betrayal and a shocking, violent series of events that will test their love and prove the power of forgiveness.

A wise and astonishing novel about the different guises of love and the often steep tolls on the road to adulthood, The God of Animals is a haunting, unforgettable debut.

Here's a link to Conversely's blurb from the author (2003) and a short story that will give you a taste of her writing style. http://www.conversely.com/Write/wr092.shtml

You can also read the first chapter of The God of Animals here: http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab=32&pid=525641&agid=2


We'll get to the discussion questions after everyone has finished the book! Y'all say when!

[Lady Di]

Okay Ladies, I picked up the book today :) Can't wait to get started. Happy Easter to y'all :003

[waterabbit]

I'm finished! :)

[Lady Di]

Believe it or not, I'm finished too.

[Meggie'sMom]

Wow, you breezed right through it, Dianne! Did you and Lynn like the book? Is Linda reading with us this time?

Here's the link to the discussion questions I found:
http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab=32&pid=525641&agid=10
If you want to read through them and see if any are interesting, or if you thought of anything else. I can absolutely say I liked the characters in this book much better than Nineteen Minutes! It is an entirely different novel though and I'm interested to hear some of your impressions.

[waterabbit]

Cindy, I really liked it, although it did bring tears to my eyes. I know Dianne finished, but where is Linda? I'm going to check out the questions you posted... Let me know what's going on. Happy Easter Ladies!! :032

[Meggie'sMom]

I cruised back through the book today, refreshing my memory and wondering at the ending if Aryn Kyle was truly writing a love story for her father. So I searched for an interview with Ms. Kyle to see how autobiographical the novel might be and found this interview with NPR:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9218232

It seems that she put her hometown in the book, but not her own life. However, she does address other characters in the book in relation to her life, but not Alice's father, nor does she comment on her own father. Hmm... I'm still wondering.

[Lady Di]

Cindyand Lynn, I did enjoy this novel. Not sure if I should say too much in case Linda is still reading. I had a really hard time with that one thing towards the end. As a matter of fact it bothered me deeply. :( I think everyone knows what I'm referring to. Will elaborate more once we find out if Linda's reading this too. Thank you all for encouring me to read something other than the mainstream books I've been reading..... However I did notice Dorthea Benton Frank has a new one coming out soon :D

[lammer29]

I am still reading, on page 60! I had another book borrowed from a coworker that she needed back this Monday, so I had to read the whole thing (today)! It was a fast book, but I would be further if I could have read ours instead. (The title was 32 Third Graders and One Class Bunny) Funny stuff! I promise to keep reading. There was a review in today's Sunday paper on The God of Animals,which was favorable, but it revealed something and I stopped reading the article!I hate to have you all have to wait for me, though. So what ever you all decide to do is okay, I don't want to be your albatross! I am enjoying it, though!

[Meggie'sMom]

I'm willing to wait, Linda. Enjoy!

[Lady Di]

Linda, take your time girl, please don't rush. We'll wait for you.

[waterabbit]

I agree :) We're not going anywhere!! Dianne, I know what your talking about :(

[Lady Di]

Lynn I was reading your journal and I just have to ask....The Stepford Wives?? :D

[waterabbit]

Dianne, the first installment is now posted. :eek:

[Lady Di]

"We will want to meet your wife soon, okay?" (it creeps me out even now) Lynn, oh my God.......I love it!!!! I can't wait for the next installment. Strange people :eek:

[lammer29]

I have finished!I am not sure if we are waiting for anyone else, so I won't write anything yet, let me know!

[waterabbit]

Yea!!! I'm ready with you ladies are :)

[Lady Di]

I'm ready too :) I can't wait to hear everyone's opinions on this book.

[waterabbit]

Hey Dianne! I'm looking forward to it too. :)

[Meggie'sMom]

Okay, I'm ready. I think we're all ready to discuss. Belleisgolden mentioned wanting to read sometimes with us, but I never saw a definite on this title. I say we go for it.

The first thing I'll say is I loved the characters in this book. Alice Winston has a wicked sense of humor and is wise beyond her years, and though her dad has moments when I'm not completely fond of him, overall I like him too. Both have a great sense of humor.

[lammer29]

I had a uneasy feeling throughout the book that something was going to happen with one or more of the horses in the story and I was unfortunately right.I cried like a baby when I finished and was very upset. I liked Alice, sort of, I actually was quite surprised, that being the loner that she was, that she never attached herself to any of the animals at her barn. I know it is fiction, but as starved as she was for affection and attachment, I felt that in reality a girl like that would have rebeled against the strictly working mentality of the horses at the barn. I was appalled at the treatment of Darling, and Alice just watched and never interacted even though she seemed to have a connection to the horse. Alice was dealt a lousey homelife, so I guess that I shouldn't be so harsh, but it is hard to sympathize with her character knowing the cruelty that was going on on a daily basis which she never confronted.

This is a link to the reading guide for book clubs if you want to use any of their questions .
http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab=7&pid=525641&agid=10
You can copy and paste into your browser, or hopefully it will highlighted and you can just click on the link.

[waterabbit]

Will reply later- in reference to our last book- 32 students supposedly have been shot at virginia tech- My nephew goes there- :eek:

[lammer29]

Lynn, I will say a prayer for your nephew, I saw the news this afternoon. I hope that he is safe.

[Lady Di]

Lynn, My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. I pray your nephew is safe. I have so many thoughts on this book but somehow just can't quite focus right now. It's times like these I wonder what this world is coming to :(

[Meggie'sMom]

Hope everyone who knows anyone in Blacksburg gets good news about their loved ones. What an awful ordeal for the entire town and university.

I wrote a long response about my feelings on God of Animals and my computer ate it last night before I could post it. Don't have a lot of time now to recompose any of it because it's lunch time and even that is almost over. I did think of a quote I read of Gretchen Jackson's concerning Barbaro in relation to Alice and the horses as a family business. She said: ""When one becomes a racehorse owner, one of the things is to not fall in love with the animal because it is so painful when something like this happens." She then confessed that she had broken the golden rule of the industry. Horses as a business are entirely different than horses that girls fall in love with.

Whoops, bell rung ... gotta go!

[Lady Di]

I grew up working at a stable. We boarded horses, gave lessons and also rented horses for trail rides. The owners used to warn us not to get too attached to any of the horses as some just didn't have the temperment for unexperienced riders,so I understand the mentality but I honestly never came to terms with it. My heart was broken many times as one of my favorites would end up being sold :( I really liked the book I felt sorry for Alice but I didn't always understand her reactions to the animals. I cried like a baby at the end. Could not get the thought of that poor colt out of my mind. Lynn, please tell us your nephew is okay.

[lammer29]

I also grew up at a stable. i was a boarder, but I did just about everything there was to do.Even though Ihad my own horse,there were plenty of other horses, some owned by boarders, some owned by the owner of the barn. I interacted with all of them. Of course some, it was just to stop by their stall and have a 'chat'and a rub or nuzzle, but still I loved them all. it was sad when one left, but it was also joyfull just to have known the horse. I even remember the 'stud' it was understood that only the owner worked with him, but he still needed someone to give him some attention, too. the foals were marvelous to behold! I figured out that if I went down on my knees they weren't afraid of my size any longer and they'd get curious and come over for a nuzzle. I'd help out with the barn chores, especially in summer, I'd be there all day long. And all the animals that I was lucky enough to be around! Besides the horses, there were dogs, cats, a cow, a donkey, rabbits, hens, roosters, and occasionally ducks, too. It was the most wonderful way to be. I used to dream that it was in my back yard so I could spend the evenings there ,too. So I guess that I have that pic in my mind and I just can't understand Alice. This was normal behavior for all the kids there that I knew, to enjoy all the animals. My horse came to me by accident, she was purchased at an auction for the barn owner's client. Well, he asked me to ride her for the client and I fell in love with her! She was very thin, scared of everyone, and obviously had never been loved or cared for well. She had a brand on her,too. In retrospect, she wouldn't have been the one in a crowd I'd pick, but I think it was meant to be! My sister had just cashed her paycheck, and there you have it, she was mine! It took lots of tender,loving, care, but I could eventually do anything with her, she had issues with men, but that was okay with me! There were other boarders, even one was the daughter of former but famous President Kennedy's staffer!We had quite a mix, mostly the neighborhood kids and the boarders, but always something going on.So the interactions of Alice andher family seem s foreign to me. I know I was born loving animals but it was so solidified by this way of growing up, I wish I could have given it to my son, too. but he is an animal lover, too and that is a great start. maybe I could have related to Alice's mom,if her character had been developed more, I think that all the bad she saw at that barn, she couldn't deal with, although I am surprized that she interacted with the inlaws, given that Jack was an animal abuser and it seemed that that issue was one which put her upstairs in bed to begin with.

[lammer29]

I am getting nervous that we haven't heard from Lynn and I checked her journal and no entries for a few days. I hope her nephew is okay. I have cried more than a few times watching the news (I am on spring break this week). Lynn, we are thinking and praying for you and yours. Join us back here when you can!

[waterabbit]

Hey Ladies! While we have received the best news, (Ben is fine, shaken up, but fine) so many have received the worst. It took until yesterday to find out if he was okay, and I have to say I was worn out from worry. Thanks for thinking about me :)
This really is like our book coming to life, isn't it? The girlfriend, hating the rich, etc.
Okay, on to the book at hand. I liked it. I cried over the abuse, at least what I consider abuse, of the horses. We had horses on my Dad's ranch when I was growing up, and we had ranch hands who would break the horses, but I never saw or heard of the methods her Dad used. I thought the mom should have had mental health help... C'mon, just going to bed one day, and nobody does anything about it? The teacher?... creepy he spent his time drinking and talking to a child. As far as Alice, her emotional detachment was a coping method for all of her losses. She basically became a ranch hand, after her sister left, and didn't have her mother or father to really show her any love. Sad :( What did you think of the sister and the teacher?

[Meggie'sMom]

I really believe Alice's attitude toward the horses is realistic for someone born into a mutigenerational working horse ranch in Colorado that breaks/trains/sells horses for the owners' livelihood. As for Joe and his breaking method, I found a quote from "Cowboy Bob's" Q&A page: "When I was growing up, breaking a horse's spirit was the generally accepted way of training. To make a horse submissive, you tied up one of the hind legs or immobilized it in some other way and subjected it to various frightening situations until it lost its will to resist." that illustrates the same methods Joe used. He didn't consider it abuse, it was the method he was taught. Remember that this was long before Monty Roberts or Pat Parelli.

As for Alice, I still saw her feelings for the animals. She was tormented by guilt over the twitch incident with Darling, she alone seemed able to communicate with Darling concerning the breeding incident, she was so wrought up over her father riding Cap into the ground (which I think is the worst abuse Joe delivered) when Shelia fell off him that she brought up the question to Delmar that ultimately led to the book's title -- I don't have my book with me to quote it exactly, but she asks ‘isn't there someone, something that cares about the animals. (p 83) That cares if they are hurt.’ Remember how she ran after Cap in chapter one to catch him before he got hurt? Alice was sympathetic to the foals being weaned, to Darlings’ torture from the brood mares; over and over I did see where Alice cared about the animals. She wasn't overly sentimental with them like girls who fall in love with horses, nor was she able to express her feelings or rage about the "abuse", I'm sure she knew how her father would respond. Besides she was trying so hard to keep his affection that she wouldn’t have been able to cross him on something so accepted. I also think Alice’s main need was for a mother and no animal could have filled that for her.

I began riding at age 13 and was taught by man who basically bargained horses for part of his living. He shared a lot of the old breaking, training sentiments and felt that you couldn't treat horses as "pets" or you would end up hurt. His horses came and went as he could make a profit. There wasn't a boarding barn or anything close to it, the horses were kept in the country in a pasture. No one in my family had money for equipment or riding attire or trailers, trucks, boarding etc… We rode in our jeans, mostly bareback. We were country kids with ponies. When I got my first horse at age 16, it was a backyard horse, just like my 2 are today. My horses would no more be sold than my dog; they are family and I am sentimental about them. Still, I know the mind set that Joe came from. He was doing his job as it had been passed down from his father.

As for Jack and the incident with Ace, I'm not sure that it proves that he habitually abused horses. It sounds more like a fit of temper -- parallels Joe hitting the colt with his cane -- than something he did on a daily basis. I'm not sure why, Linda, you think this is the cause of Marion's isolation. (?) I didn't think that, but I felt like perhaps something involving Bart may have been involved. I wish the author had made it more clear. I believe that Joe kept the “old men” because of a sense of guilt from his father doing this to Ace. That was one thing that made me like him.

Concerning stallions: I was confused by Joe’s attitude toward them and this is why I thought perhaps Bart was connected with Marion’s problems. Stallions are kept separate in boarding situations sure, but I can’t imagine that they wouldn’t be handled or ridden. A stallion’s lineage is important in stud fees, however in show horses the individual animals' results would relate to his own value as well — just like Cap and his world points. And most stallions are not horrible beasts that can’t be approached. My best friend and I would occasionally leave our horses up (gelding and mares) to ride a man’s stallion – bareback and double – just to give him exercise and because it was so cool to ride Charlie (he was massive!). He was bred a lot, but here he was being ridden around a small town by two teenagers. If I explained some of his owner’s techniques for keeping him in line, you really would scream abuse, but he could have killed somebody easily without having a healthy respect for humans. I can’t imagine that racehorses’ lineage would be enough to make Bart or Richard a desirable stud.

The incident with Richard/King was horrible, but the aftermath for Darling was what broke my heart the most. They were the two who communicated through the round pens when they had been separated from the other horses. Horses are herd animals, that was hard for them. For Darling to finally be “broken” by having to spend hours in the arena with Richard’s body, alone and forgotten, well, that broke my heart for her.

[Meggie'sMom]

Also found this reference on Gary Hunt's breaking/training method page:

Day 1 - Sacking Out and Saddling

On Day one, he will warm up the colt going both directions, then he sacks him out with his hands. Then, with his sack out blanket. He will brush the colt and saddle him and lets the colt move out with the saddle on.

Day 2 - Sacking Out and Saddling Head-to-Tail

Day two is a repeat of Day One, with the addition of tying the colt's head to his tail.

ETA: Please do not think I am condoning this. I am a HUGE fan of Monty Roberts and "join up" and believe in "gentling" instead of "breaking".

[waterabbit]

Cindy- I agree with you about farm mentality. I know we had calves and cows we could become friends with, and let them eat out of our hands. Of course, there were others that were to be sold at auction, and we weren't supposed to become close.
I don't think Jack was abusive regularly either. I loved the old men he took care of.
About Darling, the whole thing, from day one, just broke my heart.

[Meggie'sMom]

Here's the passage from page 83 that made me feel Alice's pain for animals deeply. This was right after the twitch incident and Alice is on the phone with Delmar:

I had waited for the tears to stop before I called him, waited until my whole body was empty and dry, hard as a fist. But now I felt the sadness rising again inside my chest. "It just seems like there should be someone, something out there that cares about them, cares that they existed, that they suffered or didn't." ... "Something out there ought to be watching over them."

Remember that she and Delmar had both just agreed that they did not believe in God, but here's Alice wracked with pain over an animal's suffering, and though she doesn't believe in a God for herself, she feels that animals should have one. I felt her guilt over that incident deeply.

Also remember that the first time she called Delmar was when Joe was riding Cap into the ground for Shelia's fall.

Stop, stop, stop, I begged until my hands shook from clenching and my teeth ached in my jaw.

I thought Alice felt almost everything acutely.

[waterabbit]

Yes, I agree. It is easy to think she didn't care, but she did, and deeply. I also reread page 82-83, and then was reminded Mr. Delmar told her about the unicorn. Cindy, I have never heard of a twitch. It sounded very painful for both Darling and Alice. Are you familiar with it? And what did you think of her relationship with her father? I thought he was basically a kind man who lost his way. It reminded me a little of my relationship with my own father. A lot of emotions going on between them, but it was so hard for either one to really talk to each other.

[Meggie'sMom]

Tha Appaloosa Horse Journal has a good definition of a twitch. If it is used correctly, it is not painful or harmful to the horse, in fact quite the opposite as you will read below. The problem is that people don't always use them correctly and then they become a torture device. Thirty years ago, my vet used one regularly to do tube deworming or to handle a horse who might get skittish during an exam, I have not had my vet use one in years now because they have been given such a bad reputation. Here's photo of horse with a twitch on its nose: http://www.asiahomes.com/singaporetpvet/9996horse_colic_rope_twitch_Singapore.jpg

A standard twitch consists of a loop of rope or chain connected to the end of a wooden handle. The handler puts his or her hand through the loop, grasps the horse’s upper lip with the same hand and then slips the twitch onto the lip. The handle is then rotated upwards to twist (clockwise if the handler is on the horse’s left side; counterclockwise if the handler is on the horse’s right) and tighten the loop around the nose. A “humane” twitch is a clamp-like device that scissors around the horse’s upper lip and is held firmly in place.

Research at the Behavior Lab at the University of Pennsylvania’s New Bolton Center found that a twitch works in three ways: 1. It provides distraction; 2. It provides initial discomfort; 3. It’s often used instead of sedative drugs to restrain a horse. Three to five minutes after application, the pressure created by the twitch on the horse’s upper lip causes the brain to release endorphins, natural painkillers created by the body. When the horse has relaxed and dropped his head, the endorphins have kicked in and the analgesic response has taken place. In particular, the twitch inhibits movement and kicking and adds some security for mildly painful procedures.

I've always said if teenagers could get the same response they would all be walking around with a twitch on their nose!

As for Joe: he's a bit of a contradicton, isn't he? He and Alice shared that same wicked sense of humor that I just loved. And though Joe uses the old way of breaking and training that involves "beating" (not literally) the horse into submission, he has the heart to keep the Old Men in the back pasture where most people would let them go to slaughter. I think he really loves Alice and feels the closest connection to her, but he doesn't realize that she needs him to verbalize his feelings. The way he blew up at her before the breeding showed how afraid he was that she would repeat the mistakes of her sister. Joe knows Alice is smart and that he can count on her to help him with the ranch, he wants her to have a better life than Nona has chosen. Like so many dads, he doesn't know how to get the point across. He does pretty well later that same day when he talks to her on the porch. (pp 143-144) Alice is wise enough to know that he is apologizing and saying that the loves her. I thought it was a sweet scene. "You're like me" went a long way with her.

[waterabbit]

Thanks for the info on the twitch. I see that there is a humane way to use one. I do think something like that could be used on teenagers! :laugh2
As for the mother, I'm still not sure why she took to the bed. On page 32- about the father wanting her to see the horses. She said," So I can fall head over heels and he can sell them off to strangers." She bit her lip and the rims of her eyes swelled with tears.
Do you think that is why he doesn't want anyone getting close to the stallions? He doesn't want them getting hurt like the mom?

[lammer29]

She said," So I can fall head over heels and he can sell them off to strangers." She bit her lip and the rims of her eyes swelled with tears.

I think that is what I must have been remembering when I said that that was the reason she took to her bed.
As far as Joe, what did you think of his 'relationship' with Patty?And the fact that he drew Alice into it, with the dinners, shopping etc.

[waterabbit]

Hey Linda!-Unfortunately, it happened right in front of everyone's nose, but... I think she made him feel like the mother did a long time ago. She was impressed by him with the smallest of things. Alice knew he wasn't doing anything special, but she let Patty and the Catfish believe he was special. I think he thought if he brought Alice along, it wasn't really cheating on the mom. What do you think?

[Meggie'sMom]

I think Joe was about as starved for attention as Alice was. Can you imagine living 12 years with a spouse who has disassociated herself with the world and is more child than adult? Yes, he fed her illness, but still he had to be very flattered by the attention from Patty Jo and the catfish. He also wanted a taste of the finer things in life and could never get ahead financially. Patty gave him a peek at the world of the wealthy. As for taking Alice with him, I think he almost used her as an excuse and in some ways he seemed to treat Alice as an equal rather than his child. He never questioned things that should have made him sit up and take notice -- like her demand for a phone, immediately! Or when she insisted he take her somewhere on the bus.

With the mom, on page 182 I thought we almost got an answer, but then we lost the moment. Patty Jo asks Joe "Why did she stop riding?" and Alice narrates:

A long silence followed, something secret and hidden, a world that no one had ever shared with me. And though I could only see their feet, I could feel the connection passing between them. If I had been able to see their faces, I was sure I would have see it too, would have understood the thoughts they shared, the words they left unsoken.

I'm like Alice, I feel like ithe reason was right there, but I missed it somehow.

[waterabbit]

Yes, I believe he was also attracted to the finer things. I remember him with the envelopes of money, that were never enough.
Cindy, if you had to guess, what would it be?

[Meggie'sMom]

Oh, there's also the statement from Jack on page 163 that made me wonder about Marian. He says: "The thing about Marian is that she can do anything, so long as someone tells her she has to."

Do you think this was a hint from the author that Joe is actually enabling Marian and wants to keep her hidden away? At least subconsciously? The whole conversation on this page is what made me think that Bart had something to do with Marian going upstairs to bed and never coming down. You can tell that Joe and Jack are very divided on this topic of her riding Bart. Perhaps Joe just told her she didn't have to do anything she didn't want to do and she took it to an extreme. ???

[waterabbit]

I think Joe like her that way... no confrontations, it was easy. Why? If Joe knew he could tell her to get up, get dressed, and take care of the kid's, why did he not do that? It was easier for him to treat his children like adults, than his own wife. Strange.

[lammer29]

I was happy for Alice on one hand, that she got to go out and experience different, normal things. But I was fearful that there would be a price to pay for it. I really don't know why Jack didn't confront Marion, i wish the author had explored and explained this more. She was able to function (somewhat) for the inlaws, you'd think that would have been a starting point for Jack, so maybe he really didn't want her fully functional for his own reasons. Was anyone else screaming PROZAC!!!!or something to do with mental health help :) ??I did flash back to our previous book with the school girl relationships and cliques. Alice was a great actress.

[waterabbit]

Prozac!! :laugh2 :laugh2 You are right Linda, I kept thinking this book is set in present time, there has to be something to help this woman! Alice DID change didn't she? I had almost let that slip by. She became someone she wasn't with the new haircut, clothes, and hanging out with the in crowd, even though she really didn't like them. And the child was constantly lying about her family. I guess it was her way to make herself feel better, and so people wouldn't think bad about her family. By the way, do you think the check from Patty Jo was her only way off the farm? Do you think without it she would have turned out like her sister?

[Meggie'sMom]

When do y'all think this book takes place? I read one review that said today, but that's obviously not correct because we know from the last chapter that Alice is now grown and on her own and the ranch is gone and replaced with new development. I don't remember any references to cell phones either, would we put it late 80s? early 90s? Even earlier than those? It's really hard to say. I came up with those guesses from the author's age, which appears to be mid to early 20s.

The last paragraph says so much about Alice and her father. It's what made me wonder if she had written this book as a love letter to her own dad, but from her interviews she doesn't give that impression.

In those days, when he still regarded me as an extension of himself, my father would sometimes let me stand beside him as he told me their stories.... And it is in these moments that I remember him clearly, the sound of his voice as he spoke their names, the gentleness of his touch, and the way he loved, truly loved, every one of them: each of those broken promises, all those dreams that never came true.

[waterabbit]

Hi Cindy! I thought it was set in the late eighties , early nineties. There wasn't really anything I can put my hand on that dates the book. I went by Shelia, Patty Jo, and the Catfish as far as dating the book. The family was timeless, it could have been set almost anytime. Was the book a love letter to her father? I think it could very well have been, we talked before of their relationship, and the book was more about Alice and her father than anyone else.

I hope Dianne is okay, I haven't heard from her for several days. Did she go out of town? :confused:

[Lady Di]

Hi Ladies, Sorry I've been MIA. Crazy week, after hours meetings, dinner out with the girls and my husband's family renunion yesterday. Lynn, thanks for the PM and I am so glad your nephew is okay. All is good except I seem to be having some computer problems :mad: I just wrote a post and for some reason it disappeared. I'm going to post this now see if it works :D

[waterabbit]

Hey Dianne! :003 So glad you were just busy! I missed chatting with you! How was the family reunion? For me, a family reunion would be a test of endurance and my patience :laugh2 Were you off from work this week? I thought I read you were... You'll have to go back a page or two to get caught up on the book talk, Cindy and Linda have done a great job pointing out things to discuss. Glad your back :D
Oh, I hope your :380 is okay.

[Lady Di]

Hi Lynn, I've missed chatting with you too :) No, I worked this week :( Monday night I went with some of my Baseball Mom's out for dinner and then went to the ball field. This was the last game of the season for the high school and it was also senior night. This night they honor the graduating seniors and their parents....very emotional night. They introduce them on the field and talk about their high school career, where they're going to college and then the Mom's throw a ceremonial pitch to their sons. We went as emotional backup for a friend of ours who's son is graduating. The baseball Mom's are really good friends who's son's played ball with mine since they were five years old. We try to get together at least once a month for dinner. Tuesday night I had to go to our other office for a training thingy after work and then one of my co-workers gave me a tour or the beach houses on Pawleys Island. Two of my childhood friends from Canada and their husband's are coming down here the end of August for a week. We're going to rent an ocean front beach house so I was checking out which one we wanted to rent. Wednesday night we had a company customer service seminar and I didn't get home til 10:00 that night :eek: Then you add to that my husband's family reunion.....please don't get me started about that :p It was excruating to say the least. Sooooo my week has been crazy. Computer acting up and I've been a litte out of sorts. I'm a people person but I'm also an only child so if I don't get enough alone time I tend to be a little witchy :D The hubby went fishing this morning so I'm enjoying some quiet time. I have tried to keep up with the discussions and I'm so sorry I haven't contributed. I've enjoyed everyone's insights though. Will read through and see if I have anything to add jump2

[waterabbit]

Wow Dianne, you had busy week! I understand alone time too, some people don't, but I HAVE to have it. :eek: You aren't far behind in the discussion, so no worries! :) You will absolutely have to tell me about the reunion! I can't wait! I think it's great that you and the mom's are close after all the years :) Your vacation plans sound great. We are going in June to Destin- a beach resort- I think I mentioned the husband was going to marry our friends. Will definitely have to post that fiasco in my journal! :laugh2 Talk soon!

[Lady Di]

When do y'all think this book takes place?
It's funny I didn't even think about when this book takes place. I just assumed it took place now but now that I think about it there was never any mention about cell phones or computers.
Oh, there's also the statement from Jack on page 163 that made me wonder about Marian. He says: "The thing about Marian is that she can do anything, so long as someone tells her she has to."
I'm a fixer so I was totally blown away by the families acceptance of Marian. I wonder if someone could just spend the rest of their life in bed. I know I've had days when I felt like staying in bed but just can't imagine. Saying that I know absolutley nothing about depression but I'm guessing this woman was way off the charts in this department. Such a shame as there were glimmers every now and then of the woman she was or could have been. I didn't get the way the stallions were treated either. We had a gorgeous stud named Jimmy and we had to take the usual precautions with him. Very few people were allowed to ride him and when he was ridden or put in the pasture we all scurried around making sure there were no mares around before we let him out. Jimmy was treated like a king, he was magnificent to look at and an adventure to ride. We used to sit by the pasture for hours watching him. If anything he was probably treated better than some of the other horses. It's funny you get pictures in your mind when you read and for some reason I kept picturing Jimmy when they talk about the stallion in this book :(
After I finished reading I kept thinking if there were a few more chapters I would like them to address the other women in this book. Wouldn't you love to know what happened to the mother and sister? Cindy, Lynn, Linda, anyone care to test their creative writing skills and write another chapter. I'd love to hear where you would take these characters :029

[waterabbit]

Hey Ladies! :003 Ally is finally out for the summer from college, and things are getting back to normal. Just got back from Sam's with an armload of books! :eek: I hope everyone is doing great, and ready for another go at a book! :) Dianne, good idea about another chapter, but I just haven't had the time. :( You know, the more I think about it, the mother and the sister were not very in depth, developed characters. It might be hard to do a follow up chapter on them, although we could've gotten the mother out of the bed!! :laugh2 Talk Soon!

[Lady Di]

Hi all :029 My son wrote his last exam today. Called me just before the exam to say he was one exam away from being a junior. Where does the time go? Just seems like yesterday we were loading his stuff up and moving him into the dorm and now he's going into his junior year. Lynn, glad your daughter's finished for the summer but I laughed when I read Ally is finally out for the summer from college, and things are getting back to normal. My husband and I are getting used to our son being away from home. Now don't get me wrong I love having him here but normal no way. :D He came home last weekend to pick up his car and I woke up around 1:30 am to the sound of ice plopping into glasses and the microwave dinging and of course he brought several of his friends home to eat as well. You know how boys are. Anyhow it's all good, I miss him when he's not here but it's an adjustment for all of us. He has to remember he has rules here and has to be courteous and let us know of his plans and when he's not coming home at night and I have to learn how not to hover and mother him to death. I'm ready to read something too. We went out in the boat last Sunday and went to our favorite beach. We walked for miles and I found 13 sand dollars. Haven't seen Cindy or Linda on here in a while. Yoohoo Cindy, Linda where are you??

[Meggie'sMom]

Hey, sorry I've been AWOL. School is jumping into a faster gear for a few weeks before it all snowballs to the finish. The tech department decided to undertake a HUGE project on top of everything else that goes with the end of the year and, of course, they have given those of us at the school level a large part of it to accomplish. I have decided to change positions from librarian to curriculum coordinator next year (ours is retiring) and she is helping me get up to speed on some things, which is wonderful, BUT I still have my library duties to perform. I feel like I am filling about 3 roles right now. We begin AP testing the end of this week -- we have 7 to give, then we have 4 major field tests, then 7 days of end-of-course exams. I am SO ready to send these seniors off into the world -- hey, but then we get to do remediation and retests for freshman who don't score high enough on their state exams! UGH! Does it end? Maybe I'll get to read a book in July!

[waterabbit]

Dianne Good news about your son and finishing exams! YEA!! Ally has a slew of guy friends that come over at all times and eat everything in sight. :eek: Funny, but they always show up when we have ribs slow cooking on the grill. :confused: I am glad you got to relax and go out on the boat. I haven't started any of the books yet, I may wait a few days. I did however get my bu** back on the treadmill. Tightening and firming :D
Cindy Congrats on your new position!! :029 Try not to get too stressed out, and saying a mantra might help! "It's almost over. It's almost over." :laugh2
I haven't heard anything from Linda but maybe she is in the same boat as all of us, with summer upon us, and so many things to tend to.
Talk to you Ladies Soon! :003

[lammer29]

Hi! This has been a hectic week here, too. I started to feed raw and have been consumed to get it together! Not sure if we'll make the long haul, but at least I'm trying! Getting some good advice on this forum. So.......glad all the 'children' are finishing up with school work - do they come home for summer, have jobs? or get to chill? I can't wait til June 21st myself~!Cindy congrats from me,too!Lynn, so what books did you buy????Well, I am exhausted, I am going to collapse on couch.Talk soon!

[waterabbit]

Hey Linda! My daughter's plan for the summer is to sleep, eat, swim in pool, beach, friends, read (she is a big fan of reading too)and go to the movies! She doesn't work, but she does help around the house :rolleyes: Well, she keeps her room clean :) When prince was alive, I had to cook all his meals, because of his horrific allergies. It was time consuming, I hope the raw diet works well for you. I have always been quite daunted by the whole process. Are you going to feed necks and things? When you have time, maybe you can let me know how that works. I have read the posts on this site, but somehow don't quite grasp the whole thing. :confused: Anyway, on to something I do know about...Books! Here's what I picked up from Sam's in no particular order.

Einstein by Walter Isaacson
Gone by Jonathan Kellerman
Obession by Jonathan Kellerman
The Husband by Dean Koontz
When Darkness Falls by James Grippando
One Thousand White Women, the journals of May Dodd by Jim Fergus
Skin by Ted Dekker- Suspense book I think
Step on a Crack by James Patterson
The Land of Mango Sunsets by Dorothea Benton Frank
Maneater and The Starter Wife by Gigi Levangie Grazer
The Measure of a Man by Sidney Poitier

Geeez! I better get reading! :laugh2

[lammer29]

Wow! Waterabbit, need a loan?? :laugh2 Of all the books, One thousand white women has been recomended to me, I have no info on any others,but I used to read al of Jonathan Kellerman's boks and his wife, Faye, too.I just got tired of them I guess.Let me know what you think. How will you decide in which order to read??I always like having a few on hand, so I know I'll have something when I finish one book. I bought Manhunt and I don't know why, Ihave always wanted to read, it, it's about the search for John Wikes Booth after he shot Lincoln (I think it has some actual info with some added drama), and I borrowed Bel Canto from school staff library we have set up. I have heard good things on that one, too. Since it is starting to get nice here, hopefully our outside furniture will be dragged out soon and I can sit and read. If no, I know that I'll start somewhere around June 21st when school gets out.Then i can go to the pool anytime I want and just read and relax, I wish it were in my own backyard, though, I am jealous!(then I'd have my dogs with me, i always feel guilty leaving my golden to sit and read by pool, plus they'd have a great time swimming!) By the way, can an old ladylike me tag around with your daughter? It sounds like a great life... those were the days, weren't they?Raw feeding is quite an ordeal (especially for me) I don't plan out family's dinner so well, so I feel sorry for the dogs!I'll let you know, and yes I am trying bones, too.You'll read my panic this week in the raw thread and lots of questions, too. I am waiting for some backordered books on the subject so I guess I'll be doing research not pleasure reading in the near future. i am trying to read The Ties that Bind, but haven't had alot of time. well ,work week's over and I need to
relax and regroup! Talk soon.

[waterabbit]

Linda Hey! First off , let me tell you I have been in an off/ on relationship with Jonathan Kellerman for years. Was never thrilled with Faye's books. I'll let you know if they are any good. I LOVE the Manhunt concept. I have to get it. History is my passion, as well as other things, but you know what I mean! What is Bel Canto about? I haven't heard anything yet. Funny you would say that about the pool, Sundance doesn't even go in! He sits on the steps! :laugh2 He is a big baby. As far as my daughter, yes !! hang around her!! She really does have the life! She is as entertaining as she is smart. Me, on the other hand, had to work from age 14 on, but she is the princess and her JOB is school. The husband wouldn't have it any other way. :) Anytime you want to come to florida, or any of the ladies in the group, we have the room, and our course the golden reception! Let me know how the raw feeding is going. I am going to check your posts on the food area. By the way, One thousand white women sounds really good. It may be my first one to read. :) BTW, what is The Ties that Bind about ? Talk Soon!

[Meggie'sMom]

My young'un finishes up college this coming Tuesday. It will be some adjustment to having him back home, but he goes straight to work for our tech department, so the biggest problem may be both of us trying to get out the door at the same time in the mornings. :)

I'm not sure the mantra "It's almost over" is gonna work -- it will be at least June 20th before it's all over with the school year and I told technology I'd work for them this summer if funding is available. My brain is so fried -- AP testing starts the end of next week. I had test training this week. Sheesh. I am so unorganized. I need to go buy a good day planner.

Your list of books sounds interesting, Lynn. I've got a book my farrier let me borrow called Metal Cowboy that is a collection of short essays the author wrote about riding his bicycle around the country and the world. It's exactly what I need right now because each chapter is a story unto itself and I only get a few minutes here and there to pick it up. It gives me a laugh or some words of wisdom to contemplate.

[lammer29]

This is a description of Bel Canto by Ann Patchett: Somewhere in South America, at the home of the country's vice president, a lavish birthday party is being held in honor of the powerful businessman Mr. Hosokawa. Roxanne Coss, opera's most revered soprano, has mesmerized the international guests with her singing. It is a perfect evening -- until a band of gunwielding terrorists takes the entire party hostage. But what begins as a panicked, life-threatening scenario slowly evolves into something quite different, a moment of great beauty, as terrorists and hostages forge unexpected bonds and people from different continents become compatriots, intimate friends, and lovers
oops! It's The Double Bind! I was so tired last eve whole body ached and I made it through 3 mins of tv before falling asleep, literally! this is the description:Product Description
Throughout his career, Chris Bohjalian has earned a reputation for writing novels that examine some of the most important issues of our time. With Midwives, he explored the literal and metaphoric place of birth in our culture. In The Buffalo Soldier, he introduced us to one of contemporary literature’s most beloved foster children. And in Before You Know Kindness, he plumbed animal rights, gun control, and what it means to be a parent.

Chris Bohjalian’s riveting fiction keeps us awake deep into the night. As The New York Times has said, “Few writers can manipulate a plot with Bohjalian’s grace and power.” Now he is back with an ambitious new novel that travels between Jay Gatsby’s Long Island and rural New England, between the Roaring Twenties and the twenty-first century.

When college sophomore Laurel Estabrook is attacked while riding her bicycle through Vermont’s back roads, her life is forever changed. Formerly outgoing, Laurel withdraws into her photography and begins to work at a homeless shelter. There she meets Bobbie Crocker, a man with a history of mental illness and a box of photographs that he won’t let anyone see. When Bobbie dies suddenly, Laurel discovers that he was telling the truth: before he was homeless, Bobbie Crocker was a successful photographer who had indeed worked with such legends as Chuck Berry, Robert Frost, and Eartha Kitt.

As Laurel’s fascination with Bobbie’s former life begins to merge into obsession, she becomes convinced that some of his photographs reveal a deeply hidden, dark family secret. Her search for the truth will lead her further from her old life—and into a cat-and-mouse game with pursuers who claim they want to save her.

In this spellbinding literary thriller, rich with complex and compelling characters—including Jay Gatsby and Daisy Buchanan—Chris Bohjalian takes readers on his most intriguing, most haunting, and most unforgettable journey yet.
and Manhunt, The 12 day chase for Lincoln's Killer:The murder of Abraham Lincoln set off the greatest manhunt in American history. From April 14 to April 26, 1865, the assassin, John Wilkes Booth, led Union cavalry and detectives on a wild twelve-day chase through the streets of Washington, D.C., across the swamps of Maryland, and into the forests of Virginia, while the nation, still reeling from the just-ended Civil War, watched in horror and sadness.

James L. Swanson's Manhunt is a fascinating tale of murder, intrigue, and betrayal. A gripping hour-by-hour account told through the eyes of the hunted and the hunters, this is history as you've never read it before.

let me know if you end up reading any of them.
DO you read any Nelson DeMille? I like his older ones better, but I have his ast one I am also trying to read, Wish i had more relaxing time!

Boy it would be more fun visiting you in FLA - hubby's family lives there, too. Actually, we've had fun when there most times,it's just the family gatherings (usually when it's my vacation that gets annoying - they don't get that it's our vacation, and siting around talking and eating all day is my idea of vacation!

Meggie'sMom ; a short story book sounds like a good filler for our busy times!
Talk soon!

[waterabbit]

Cindy that book you are reading sounds really interesting. So, is it like a diary of his time on the road? Glad you are enjoying it! Congrats on your son coming home! Sorry the mantra is not working :( At least it's the weekend :)
Linda The books sound good. I will definitely read the Lincoln one. Where does your husband have family? We are in Jacksonville, about 20 minutes from the beach.(depending on traffic) :eek: Next time in Fl, stop by for great BBQ, cocktails, beautiful weather and good conversation! ( I don't know what it is about the South, but we do love our BBQ!) :laugh2
Hey Dianne! How are you???
Well, there will be a new addition to the family. The SIL is having to get rid of her 2 year old Macaw. We are taking him in :204 Lord, give me strength! :laugh2 He'll be here tonight, so I'll let you know how it goes. Oh we also placed our bets on the Kentucky Derby this morning. The husband about had a fit when he saw one of the horses I bet on! His name is-I'mawildandcrazyguy- and he's NOT expected to win. But hey, he's from Fl, and I like him!! :laugh2 So we will be drinking mint julips, and munching on slow cooked ribs by the pool later on today! If you watch the race, look for my silly horse! Talk Soon!

[lammer29]

The Kentucky Derby! Yea! It was a tradition with my dad growing up, to watch it together. I miss that. I watch most years, but some not, unfortunately. Any money on the race? I most definitely know that my dad used to bet, and not the legal way!Hubby's family are in Boca. We're the poor relatives!Your afternoon sounds wonderful, waterabbbit! A bird? Wow! Let us know how it goes!

[Lady Di]

Hi Ladies, Well here it is Saturday morning and I'm at work :( Anyhow as you can tell I'm making the best of a bad situation by surfing the net.... shhh don't tell. I just finished reading Double Bind by Chris Bohjalian and I loooooved it. Cindy, congratulations on the new job. Your school is very lucky to have someone like you and that's great your son has a job for the summer. My son is still looking, not sure how hard but he's looking. Lynn, you better be careful about the open invitation.....I might just take you up on it. Summer, a pool, Florida and a Golden.....sounds like the perfect vacation to me :029 Oh and Lynn since the wind changed we're getting that smoke from those fires in Georgia now. What is the birds name Lynn? I love watching the Kentucky Derby, aren't those horses beautiful. Got to run, duty calls. :003

[lammer29]

Lady Di: do youthink The Double Bind would be a good discussion book fo rus? Since you have read, and I have it, we are halfway there. Any opinions?

[Lady Di]

Linda, Sure it would be a great book to discuss. It's different and that's all I'll say about it til you've finished :D How are you doing with the raw feeding?

[Meggie'sMom]

Okay, y'all got me curious about Double Bind and I googled it and read the prologue online. Now I just have to find this book and read it. Thanks a lot! :D

[Lady Di]

Cindy, I liked this book, first time I've ever heard of this author. I think I'll pick up some of his other books.

[waterabbit]

Hello Ladies! :003 I am almost finished with The Double Bind. I am on page 250, so it won't be too much longer. I did not realize it, but I have read a book by this author already; The Water Witches. When I ordered the Double Bind, I also ordered several more. I like the way Bohjalian weaves a story!! Let me know if we are going to discuss this book, or another. Miss talking to you guys :( Talk Soon!

[Lady Di]

This was the first book of his I've read but I agree I love how he weaves a tale!!! Did you like The Water Witches? I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this book. Let me know when you're finished. I'd love to discuss it but I gave the book back to my co-worker so I don't have it to reference. Interesting read isn't it?

[Lady Di]

Lynn, PM me when you've finished the book :) I can't wait to hear what you think of it. I think Cindy and Linda are reading it too. Where are you girls? I'm sure they're both busy as school is drawing to a close. This is the only time of year I wish I was a teacher :D Tough job but would love to have some time off in the summer.